Is evolution and a God a possibility?

Discussion in 'Your Religion & Spiritual Center' started by Caribbean, Nov 14, 2010.

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  1. Henrysullivan

    Henrysullivan New Member

    Nothing that I read in the Bible precludes evolution. What's more, nothing I read precludes that the earth was occupied by men who were here before Adam. Between verses 1 and 2 of Genesis Chapter 1, much happened. Here are:

    1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

    2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

    OK, when did God create water?

    If the earth was without form and void, then where were these waters. If waters were on the earth, the earth was not void. So between the first sentence of verse 2 and the second, much occurred as well.

    And then, let's look at what God did with these waters:

    7And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

    8And God called the firmament Heaven.

    So there are these "waters" both above Heaven and below heaven.

    And then:

    9And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

    So God took the waters He separated from those waters above Heaven and gathered these waters into one place. The next verse says He made seas out of these waters.

    In the scriptures, 'waters' represent life. I expect that life, or the ability to sustain life, is what these scriptures are speaking to, as much or more than H2O, as we know water. That must be the case or we must believe that H2O exists above the Heavenly plane. I expect that God separated life above the firmament from life below the firmament. The firmament is the veil that separates the natural world from the spiritual world.

    I will stop here. But you see, there is just so much more to these scriptures regarding the creation, that can only be understood by reading between the lines. Nothing in these scriptures therefore precludes evolution from occurring, or not, or men inhabiting the earth before Adam, or not. There is just so much left for us to study and try to understand.
  2. phildsc

    phildsc New Member

    Perhaps I'm a strange person and thinker, but to me the Big Bang and evolution seem to work and give answers to what we see in the physical universe. It's my belief that evolution is part of a plan and that the Big Bang came when a Supreme Being said, "Let there be light."
  3. Titus

    Titus New Member

    I have no problem with creation and evolution both being correct. I believe God created everything, including science and the process of human discovery of science. I believe much of God's creation and His process is beyond the scope of human understanding. For Him to illustrate the concepts through inspiration of the story of Adam and Eve (which Moses wrote) made me "get it." Whether it is figurative, literal or a bit of both doesn't matter to me because it makes sense in regard to Christ's teachings and purpose.

    As regards the Big Bang......God said BANG and it all problem.

    I do have a slight problem with Darwin's origin of the species, but only for scientific reasons that I'm not going into on a spiritual support board.

  4. Chris0515

    Chris0515 New Member

    I kind of have my ears on both theories but still believe in God 1,000%; but as far as all that evolving from monkeys stuff goes I just toss all that out and fully believe that humans were humans, apes were apes, elephants were elephants, etc. Now the look of some of these animals or even the way we used to walk and talk has changed, but the basic core of what we or they are was always there in my opinion.
  5. jim1884again

    jim1884again advocating baldness be recognized as a disability

    You're not strange at all--most who have posted don't seem to see any inherent contradictions, and as I said at the end of my post, some hotshot astrophysicists see it in pretty much the same way. They admit they can only go so far in explaining the how or why of the Big Bang, and they then say not only does this leave open the possibility that some power or force (perhaps divine) was behind this, but also that Genesis does an interesting job of explaining the "beginning" as they understand it. Hank's post alludes to this although his examples may be different from the ones cited by the astrophysicists. I think many people see this in a similar way.
  6. Henrysullivan

    Henrysullivan New Member

    Jim, you and I have agreed too many times here recently. Yes, why is infinitely more intriguing that how. The difference between us is that I have a route before me that can answer the question, "Why?" But I do not see how men--you, me, anyone, given our limited field of vision on the universe, can by ourselves, even with the help of other men, begin to answer that question. No, to answer that question we must have at least a set of clues, a few bread crumbs, which if course is what the Bible gives Christians.

    Evolution? Sorry, Larry, but it is just such a non-issue with me. Obviously there were dinosaurs whenever they were here, what, millions of years ago? And obviously, the bones of men, or man-like creatures, go back well beyond the time that a literal interpretation of the Bible would allow, that is, if we interpret the Bible correctly in assuming that the Bible is supposed to be interpreted literally. The point is that, if we choose to believe that these folks did not live prior to Adam, if Adam indeed, lived 6000 years ago, we choose to live under false impressions. But they are false impressions over something that does not even matter. Whether or not evolution happened will not make me a better person. It will not lead me to a better life. It will not allow me to help others, or them to help me. Evolution doesn't help us regain our health. Heck, evolution tells us that we're doomed. Not being the fittest, we will not survive. And what ever happened to all those who in the past we so fit? They're all dead. So how fit is that? So evolution is just a non-issue with me.

    And I don't care if the Bible is literally true is all aspects, which it may not be. What I care about is that it is truthfully the Word of God, which is what I believe. Nowhere that I have read does the Bible purport to be literally true. But what I believe is literally true are the principles therein and that it is from God.

    In Genesis, for example, what is true is that God created everything; that God created man in His image; that truth is not relative to the observer; that there is absolute good and absolute evil in this world; that all things good come from God; that all things evil come from a force that promulgates evil and that is always against God; that man is a fallen creature, subject to that force of evil; that disobedience to God's will separates one from God; that man is born this way and that God's plan is therefore to redeem him; that God will do this in a way that allows all men to exercise free will. That is what Genesis tells me. So who cares about evolution? Evolution will not make me a better person, more in God's image. Evolution is merely an argument that is used to discredit God. That being the case, I have no time for that argument.

    The Bible does not deal with evolution. It deals in what God wants us to know about Him. God doesn't tell us everything. He leaves bread crumbs for us to follow. These crumbs allow is to learn more about God, keeping us hungry to know more, which God wants or He would not have left these crumbs.

    Evolution cannot make anyone here well. But God can. So I choose God.
  7. Imnoscientist

    Imnoscientist New Member

    Hank, there's so much I'd like to discuss with you about your post but I can't (not allowed) but I would like to draw a distinction with your quote above. I think it would be more correct to say that evolution is a theory that has been used to call the 'absolute truth' of the Bible into question (rather than discrediting God per se). While many people these days (yourself included) are satisfied that much of the Bible is metaphorical, at the time Darwin formulated the theory of evolution it was scandalous - not just the idea that we all evolved from the same amoeba, but that the theory challenges the creation story of Genesis (or at least that's how people of the time felt about it).
  8. June-

    June- New Member

    I think evolution declares the glory of God.
  9. jim1884again

    jim1884again advocating baldness be recognized as a disability

    yep, we are agreeing a bit too much lately--perhaps we should argue about football or fast food restaurants just to keep things lively
    Like you, evolution is a non issue to me (I made reference to it with my remark about carbon 14 dating) and I don't see it as having any impact on the truth of the message of the Bible or any other religious text. Things evolved--if one believes God is the prime mover and supreme force in the universe, our grasp of the timetable is irrelevant to the discussion of religion or spirituality. Nothing frustrates me more than when someone tries to invalidate the existence of God with science; I also become frustrated when someone tries to disprove widely accepted notions in science with scripture. To me, that is unnecessary from either perspective. Religion is about faith and that requires no litmus test except in the soul of the faithful. Religion has wisdom that does not need to be proved--it simply rings true or it doesn't. Science is about making observations and predictions based on empirical evidence--it has a requirement of proving its concepts are valid and reliable. If it purports to know about the workings of the spirit or the soul, it has a tool I've not yet heard of.

    Larry's question is a good one--many people still see some incongruence, but I haven't for a long time and it seems many Christians haven't either.
  10. Gustav123

    Gustav123 Life,enjoy it.

    “Faith isn't faith until it's all you're holding on to”
  11. Henrysullivan

    Henrysullivan New Member

    And I think faith is a judgment based on our freewill, that one's back is not up against the wall leaving only a default course. Faith is proactive rather than reactive.

    And this is applicable to one's pursuit of health. If one has faith that God or other forces at work in the universe is/are good, and has his or her best interests at heart, the one's faith may lead one to seek treatments he or she might not otherwise, believing he or she is being lead to those treatments.

    But if one does not have faith in the same, then one is less inclined to seek those same treatments.

    This is applicable to my own case. Faith played a key roll in my pursuit of wellness.
  12. Prima Donna

    Prima Donna New Member
  13. Mommywoe

    Mommywoe New Member

    Can I jump in here a sec? Okay, silly question, considering I just did. Evolution is a possibility, but God made it. I think of it this way, God made the Heavens and earth. He made Adam, and Eve. Then gave Adam the right to name all the creatures (minus himself, since God named him, man). That means man and woman didn't come from apes or any other creature, but was created independently. Believing the Bible, and the progression of man from cave man (Adam's time) to present with all the physical adaptations and mental developments that have occurred this is definite evolution and there is definitely a God.
  14. solari

    solari Administrator Staff Member

    Guys, I am closing this topic because as I've pointed out on the sticked thread above, this is not a spiritual debate forum because there are TONS of those out there.

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