Hi All, So while I haven't been officially diagnosed Yet, I have a pending appointment I believe i have menieres. First off thank you John of Ohio for your help when their is pretty much nothing else out there. My story has been about 20 years ago I woke up and my hearing was dulled significantly in my right ear. went to ENT and he said it was sudden hearing loss syndrome prescribed steroids and said it may or may not come back. well my hearing returned. then like 10 years ago it happened again in the same ear, this time steroids didn't bring my hearing back. I figured oh well I have one good ear and left it at that I had like 50% in my right ear. THen about 4 months ago my tinnitus which has been there but was ignorable started to flare up and get louder. fast forward to beginning of this year started having lightheaded episodes. went to my regular doctor. he thought it was my lisinopril I take for High BP, he took me off it. events still occurred and now I am measuring my BP 3 times a day along with glucose to rule out type 2 diabetes, which I dont have. all my results are good from BP and Glucose. but these episodes were happening sometimes after meals. long story short the only thing that fits the picture is Meneires. I am looking to start the regimen but want to be careful in case anything has a negative effect on the kidneys. my episodes have been one ever other day light headedness mostly, then yesterday after consuming too much salt in one meal I had a very dizzy cold sweats episode for like 2 hours. I am not the type of person to not go at this thing full bore. John have you ever looked into silvers effect on viruses? I say this as my previous job before covid was running a manufacturer of silver plated wound care dressings. I know all about the studies. these dressings Kill the most nasty bugs including MRSA which is almost unkillable. So let me cut to the chase. These dressing when wetted allute silver Ions that kill everything except human cells and tissue. In my quick research I have seen a few studies that show it will also attack viruses and stop them from entering cells. So with all this I know from slides I have seen of petry dishes that this effect radiated about 1/4 inch to 1/2 inch. my thought is this I will take a small bandage moisten it roll it up and gently insert into ear canal. it will then go to work attacking virus. 8 hours should do it. the studies showed it kills all bacteria and MRSA within 2 hours so 8 should help with distance. My question to you is does this sound crazy? I am looking at your regimen as a follow up if needed. thoughts?
Yes, silver ions, in aqueous solutions are profoundly antimicrobial. They do have the ability to chemically disable both bacteria (which are unicellular living organisms) and viruses (which are merely packets of DNA or RNA which hijack cell processes and cause them to replicate, produce more viruses). And, yes, most cases of Meniere's, as far as I can tell about 85%, are caused by herpes viruses. Those viruses somehow (almost surely by circulating blood) get into inner ear tissues and embed themselves inside cells in those tissues. There, they hijack those cells and turn them into virus factories. All of that causes inflammation, which consequently causes all of the symptoms of Meniere's disease. Now, in regard to your posting, is the question of the ability of silver ions washed into or touching the skin of the ear canal to adequately cross through the ear canal skin, enter the blood flowing through that skin, and ultimately end up in the virus-containing cells in the inner ear. Although the open ear canal seems adjacent to the infected, inflamed inner ear tissues, just a centimeter or two away, by way of the circulatory system it's far more distant. Simply, it's not likely that the majority of the silver ions will end up in the inner ear in concentrations sufficient to stop viral replication. At least as I perceive the matter. But swabbing the ear canal with a silver solution isn't going to cause any harm. Feel free to try it. See if it works. If so, wonderful. Years ago when I experimented with lysine as an anti-Meniere's agent that, too, was thought to be a crazy idea. --John of Ohio
JOH, I would like to raise a few questions. 1. Your claim on the viruses "fighting back" and making symptoms worse before getting better. Are you able to provide any source on the scientific validity of this info? I could not find any study that said antivirals will make viral symptoms initially worse before making them better. 2. What are your thoughts on the fact that taking l-lysine supplements could have anti-circulatory effects on the body, which might theoretically make Meniere's symptoms worse, especially for people whose origin is not of viral cause? L-arginine is a powerful vasodilator as it converts into nitric oxide in the body, which is known to widen blood vessels. Therefore, it only makes sense that increasing l-lysine levels, which will decrease l-arginine levels, will have a vasoconstrictive effect on your blood vessels. "Lysine reduced resting blood flow and NO levels and inhibited the increase in blood flow in endothelial cells (45), which suggests that transport of extracellular arginine via (CAT-1) amino acid transporter is required during in vivo endothelial NO production." Source: Biomarkers of Arginine and Lysine Excess
The reason why I am asking these questions is because I have been taking L-lysine for about 13 days now, and the frequency of my ear fullness episodes have dramatically increased two days after I started taking l-lysine. Now, I initially thought that it was the viruses fighting back like you said, but I tried to do some research and couldn't find anything that supports this, hence why I asked question #1. I am suspecting that my MD is caused by some vascular issues in the neck rather than herpes. This would explain why taking L-lysine has made my symptoms worse, which is why I asked my question #2. There is a study that examined neck blood vessels of MD patients, and it found that a lot of them had some blood flow issues in the neck: DEFINE_ME My MD symptoms began one year after I maintained terrible neck and back posture due to working from home on my laptop. My neck and back also have been incredibly stiff recently in the last few months. Also, two days ago when I was experiencing ear fullness, I was able to make it go away completely over the span of one night by doing mild neck and shoulder stretches. I do not believe this was a coincidence as my ear fullness has never gone away on its own without peaking and developing into dizziness/vertigo. My stretches didn't improve my ear fullness right away, but after doing about 5 minutes of the stretches, I noticed around 20% improvement. If I stopped and just sat on my computer again, it either got worse or stopped improving. When I continued the stretches, it started improving again. Sorry if it sounds like I am trying to challenge your theory. I am not. I am convinced that most Meniere's cases are of herpes origin and your regimen is effective against them. But for people whose MD is not of viral origin, and if those people experienced worsening symptoms after trying out L-lysine, I think it might be due to the fact that taking L-lysine supplements could have vasoconstrictive effects on your blood vessels.
Well from gatheting info on this site ive been taking Supps L lysine 500mg x 6 a day B5 250mg ( split in half per day) Bioflavonoids 100mg x 2 Vit d3 5000iu x1 Vinpocetine 10mg x 2 Vit b6 100mg x1 2000mg vit c i was having attacks all day or 3 a day for the best part of 6 weeks… started this regieme on 27th of december had 2 days of mid dizzyness all day then since then nothing at all apart from a slight funny turn yday but v mild compared to what i was used to! Was having drop attacks most days early days but its been a life changer already! Thank you everyone
No, I'm not aware of any study showing conclusively that herpes viruses initially increase their virulence when being confronted with lysine. But, of course very few in the medical community believe that viruses play any part as a cause of Meniere's symptoms. Simply, no one has properly studied the matter. Nonetheless, I and a multitude of people with Meniere's, who have initiated lysine therapy, have noticed that at the start of lysine therapy symptoms remain undiminished or worsen; exactly opposite of what would be expected if lysine actually suppresses herpes virus activity. But in the vast majority of cases the increased severity of symptoms eventually decreases. The lysine gains ample control over the virus. I have several hundred reports from users of my regimen and a great number personally report that at the start symptoms remained or got worse. But after some time, from a few weeks on up to several months the regimen began to work. Whatever the exact mechanism was, it was welcome. --John of Ohio
Those are interesting conjectures. For you, they may apply. Try going off the lysine and continue with the stretches therapy. If that provides relief, very good. One point about the vasoconstriction putatively caused by the lysine. If lysine causes constricted capillaries in the inner ear, which would then cause the symptoms of Meniere's, it stands to reason that in that case the person would necessarily have Meniere's symptoms equilaterally; the same in both ears, not just on one side. Keep us posted on how things progress. --John of Ohio
Hello everyone, I wanted to provide an update. Since my post several months ago, there has been no vertigo. There is only occasional brain fog and tinnitus increases during weather changes or stress. Otherwise, I feel great. I've even traveled with no problem. This is working for me.
Thank you for all the vitamins you recommended help me alot still getting some mild migraines on pressure put the full on attacks have stopped
So, can this be caused by shingles or chicken pox? I tested for hsv and was negative. I remembered both my dad and sister have had shingles. I didn't have any rash, but I heard in rare cases you can get it without a rash in your ears. I tested my igg and positive is 165 and mine was 556. I had chicken pox when I was like 8. So, I can't imagine it would be so high after 35 years. So, now I'm wondering if I should lobby for anti virals. Mine started at sudden hearing loss 3.5 weeks ago.
There are a lot of viruses that you could have, not just HSV-1 and 2. Those are the herpes ones that are often tested but by no means are they only ones in the herpetic family. EBV, CMV are others. If you haven't been diagnosed with Menieres it's going to be tough to convince an ENT to prescribe antivirals. Heck, even if you are diagnosed most ENTs are oblivious to the virus connection.
In most cases, perhaps all, the virus causing the symptoms of Meniere's is one of the herpes viruses. There are many of these; not all of them known or recognized, or able to be detected. A negative herpes simplex virus test does not rule out other herpes viruses. But most if not all herpes viruses can be controlled with either prescription herpes drugs (valacyclovir, et al. ) or with properly ingested lysine. --John of Ohio
I have been diagnosed by my ENT. He mentioned that he believed most sudden hearing loss were caused by the shingles virus, but says he thought mine was autoimmune. So, I'm hoping he's open to anti virals since my varicella test showed 4 times above the top end of positive. I have been on Lysine for 1 week and will continue either way. And thank you both for replies
Absolutely, best of luck, here's hoping he has an open mind especially given your VZV test results. Another thing you might want to raise with him if he's thinking autoimmune is low-dose naltrexone. There hasn't been much research on it with regards to Menieres but it's another angle to investigate. Low dose naltrexone or LDN
John, first of all, thank you for all that you've done and your contributions to this community. In all of your posts, one thing I've never seen you mention, is how long it took you be essentially symptom free (aside from the hearing loss). How long did it take for you after starting what became today's current regimen?
"How long did it take for you after starting what became today's current regimen?" Well, I have no idea. I worked on creating my regimen for between three and five years. I tried all sorts of over the counter supplements, for which I found evidence of mechanisms that would seem to turn down symptoms. I realized at the start that nothing would be a quick fix; that I'd have to give each new supplement many weeks of trial. But toward the end, in the fourth and fifth years, I really got control; symptoms abated, and in the final version they remained suppressed. I continued with the regimen for probably another five years. Because I was symptom-free, paying close attention for any recurrences, I then incrementally deleted regimen components, holding on to lysine to the end. Then, I went off that. I've remained symptom free ever since. But I did hike my daily ingestion of vitamin D-3 to 7000IU (for most, 5000IU would be sufficient). That supports my immune system. Haven't had a cold or flu since. But to work well, vitamin D needs sufficient magnesium. I also take 400mg of magnesium, in magnesium glycinate daily. Vitamin K-2 is a vitamin D co-factor, so I take 100mg. Vitamin K-2 properly partitions calcium in the body; keeping it out the arteries, and in the bones. --John of Ohio
