Chiropractor

I strongly suspect that my newfound upper cervical chiropractor will end up being an important part of a long term solution for me. My first adjustment was 2 nights ago. A couple hours after the adjustment, I realized that I wasn't having those off balance half dizzy feelings when I was moving my head around. I haven't felt that good in a long time. I'm back to feeling yucky again today, but that is to be expected. It takes a while before the adjustments start to hold. I have another appointment tonight.

An interesting fact is that some chiropractors who have written on their work with Meniere's disease sufferers note that the VAST majority of their patients have c1 and c2 subluxation and head/neck trauma in their past. This interferes with blood flow to the ear and nervous system impulses to the ear. Poor ear circulation is strongly correlated with this disease, even according to some medical doctors. Add something like the herpes virus to the mix, and you have a potent cocktail of damaging, contributing factors.

Here is an interesting paper on the subject.

http://www.patzerchiropractic.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/menieres.pdf

 

http://menieresnomore.tumblr.com

Here's an interesting site that discusses TMJD causing inner ear issues. It would be interesting to ask a UUC if tight shoulders, neck misalignment could cause TMJ and inner ear symptoms.

 

VikingMan, I am curious how your 2nd appointment went. Did you feel better afterwards again? I have always been curious about NUCCA. I keep looking into it and then going another route. Its all just so confusing to me... what to try next.

 

Went well. I had similar results as the first, except they lasted a little longer. Very little off balance feelings that lasted almost 2 whole days. I was adjusted Thursday evening and I was back to feeling more off balance around mid-day on Saturday. But, it wasn't quite as bad as before. I am also taking anti-virals, in the interest of full disclosure. But, the coincidence of feeling better with the adjustments can't, in my book, be explained by just the anti-virals. And, the oscillating symptoms could more readily be explained, IMO, by the adjustments failing due to having the c1 subluxation for 15-20 years. Another adjustment tonight!

I get the confusion and desperation about what to try. My philosophy has been a little different than what I typically hear on this forum. Many will say that they are trying x, y or z. Under the assumption that there is a single causal factor for their disease. Their statement is often... how will I know which thing worked if I don't try them separately? Try one thing, see if it works, then try another...

I think the body is more complicated than that. I've noted 2 very interesting facts. Take Dr. Gacek's success with anti-virals. He has reported that he is able to get 90% of his patients into remission with the use of anti-virals. Many people on this forum are a testimony to that fact. On the other hand, Dr. Burcon, an upper cervical chiropractor from Michigan, gets like 97% remission with upper cervical adjustments in many hundreds of patients. How can both claim >90% efficacy with their treatment regimen? Especially when one considers that they both have COMPLETELY conflicting view points as to the etiology of Meniere's disease? Either one of them is lying(unlikely due to the fact that they both published their work in peer reviewed journals), or, something else is going on.

I look at that one fact, 2 doctors in completely disparate fields of study with completely different hypothesis regarding the underlying cause of Meniere's disease that gain significant relief in their population of patients. My brain asks why. The only thing that makes sense is that... they are both right. For those patients, the overwhelming majority have BOTH an inner ear herpes infection AND c1 and c2 subluxation. And for the few who were unable to be helped, they probably had such an intractable infestation of the herpes virus, that ONE treatment alone was insufficient to deal with the disease.

So I figure. I'm going to try as many things simultaneously as I can. Which one ends up being the winner? I DON'T CARE!!!!! lol. As long as my freaking vertigo attacks and deafness and off balance feelings go away, I don't give a shit which one ended up being the culprit(pardon my french). I'll do some elimination work after I'm feeling better to answer the question... which one? But even if that doesn't illuminate which one(highly likely), it doesn't matter to me. So I'm using JOH, pycnogenol(OPC), anti-virals and upper cervical chiropractic. All 4 of those have >80% efficacy EACH. I figure if I throw enough 90% solutions at this damned disease, something is bound to stick.

I really want my life back, AND I want to keep my ears and not have to resort to destructive/invasive means to get what I want. My mother gave me my ears. I'd like to keep them.

Course, all of this is just 1 fellow sufferer's point of view.

 

I totally get your point of view, it seems pretty similar to how I feel! I am not knocking surgery at all but you know what, I am 28 years old... I am not ready to lose my hearing darn it! I often get mad. Why me? Why NOW? I understand some people hit that point where all they want is to feel better, even if that means losing hearing. And I understand that.

The whole 90% success thing confuses me too. That's why I am always so unsure about what to try next. How long do I try one thing before I give up and try another? I am impatient and want to find my "cure" now. Sometimes I think my husband thinks I'm crazy. I am constantly going to him and saying "this is what I am trying next". I think he thinks I am grasping at straws but I keep telling him about how there are SO many things to try before people find relief. Luckily he is always supportive even if he doesn't "get" it.

I really would like to try NUCCA but I think one of the things that scares me away is the price. I have heard about it being expensive and I am afraid to try and have it not work... just like every thing else. I have already spent so much money on different supplements. And unfortunately we have a ton of student loan debt between myself and my husband. Plus I feel guilty sometimes spending a ton of money on myself because we have a 1 year old baby.

Anyway, I am definitely interested to here updates from you. I hope you feel even better after each treatment!

 

Ask your NUCCA for some exercises that you can do to strengthen your neck and improve your ability to hold the alignment. For a few months I gave up things such as push-ups, plank yoga poses, heavy bike riding, heavy lifting, anything that would cause strain on neck or shoulder. I also made an effort to minimize the strain on my jaw, cutting up food small, soft foods ect. Seemed to help my ability to hold the adjustment.

 

Yeah, the cost factor is definitely a concern. I'm going to be paying 360 bucks a month for 12 months going the chiropractic route. It would actually be quite a bit more expensive at the start, as I'm going 3 times a week for 3 months. They are allowing me to accrue a balance with them that I will then pay off toward the end of the year when I'm having fewer appointments.

What you might consider is doing some research on a chiropractor who does upper cervical. You want to find one who actually has had some success with Meniere's disease. That might be difficult if you don't live in a densely populated area. Then, go to a few appointments and get a few c1/c2 adjustments. See if it makes any difference to your symptoms in the short term. That might give you a good indication whether it is likely to be helpful in the long term. They will probably take an x-ray or two, and THAT will be very telling. My head literally sits over half an inch off to one side because of the c1 subluxation. Like, if you were looking at the xray and you drew a straight line up through my spine, as of c6, the vertebrae start to list to the right. By the time the line goes through my nose, it's half an inch from where it should be. I had read a Meniere's case study where that was the case. To see it in my own films was... startling, but oddly, not surprising. C1 and c2 subluxation hinder blood flow and nerve impulses. The blood flow issue alone is HUGE. The JOH regimen is largely based on the restricted blood flow hypothesis, so is pycnogenol. I know of a doctor in Colorado at the University hospital in Denver whose primary hypothesis regarding Meniere's disease is related to blood flow.

I found that when my symptoms were worse, that tilting my head forward made them a little better. Guess what happens to the arteries that run through the c1 vertebrae when your head is tilted forward... they are naturally decompressed as the vertebrae open up. Restoring better circulation to the ear.

I understand the financial concerns. One thing you can think about is this. If you don't find a solution to this problem at some point, odds are this is going to get worse, as it does for most people. What are your options then? Surgery? Laby, gent, VNS, etc.? How much are those going to cost you? I've got a high deductible health insurance plan, I'll pay for most of that out of my own pocket. So it will cost you financially but also has a detrimental affect to your physical body. How do you even quantify the cost of loosing more hearing? What is the cost to you now in terms of your quality of life? What will the cost be if you have to stop working because the vertigo is so bad(assuming you are working)? Paying off student loans with no income is even worse. What are the costs going to be to your 1 year old emotionally watching his/her mom going through all these terrible things? So yes. It might be expensive. But it is an investment in your health, and you are worth it. And, it's not that expensive to at least try it and see if you see any improvement from a couple adjustments.

 

Insurance may cover a TMJD evaluation, if you want to rule that out before trying NUCCA.

 

Not to one up you or anything... , but upper cervical can also impact TMJD. I've noticed some interesting changes in my own TMJD since I started getting adjusted. Left side of my jaw used to click twice when I opened my mouth. Only clicks once right now.

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

 

Hmm, interesting. I was told by my dentist a few years ago (before my ear trouble) that I have TMJ.

 

Were you offerd a dental appliance to improve your TMJD? Seems likely that insurance would cover that especially if you have a dentists diagnosis for TMJD.

 

I agree with Vikingman that many things may cause this disease and many different think may help ease the symptoms. I was treated by Dr Burcon an UCC in Grand Rapids, MI for a few months. His treatments helped but didn't hold for long unfortunately. I still see another UCC closer to home and still the treatments don't last. I also use Acyclovir as prescibed by Dr. Gacek and again it isn't enough to control my attacks. And I was just in Denver a few weeks ago having a VNG and VEMP test done at the University of Colorado Medical Center with Dr Carol Foster. It's a wonderful facility and they treated me great but still no answers. She doesn't believe Acyclovir helps and wants me to go off it but the only other treatment she offered was magnesium supplement and low dose aspirin. She recommends the shots in my ears when I can't take the dizziness any longer. I'm not ready for that so will keep searching. Meanwhile, I will keep seeing the Chiropracor, taking lysine and Acyclovir and searching for more answers.

 

To get back on topic of the chiropractor/upper cervical - depending in your insurance it may cover all or at least part of the initial intake testing and ongoing visits. My current doctor is not a "preferred provider" but is the only one within 1 hr distance that does upper cervical. So I pay cash. However, because it is cash, my doctor offers discounts so my out of pocket is $67 if I need an adjustment. I have been going to Nucca for 3 years or so now. Not sure if it helped completely but do know that I almost immediately had less to no headaches, no neck tightness; corrected a left over limp I still had following a torn ACL.

Initially I did have to go more often (but my insurance covered it). Now i go once per month; goal is to get to 1x per quarter.

Note that there are many names: Upper Cervical; Nucca; QSM3; Blair, etc..

If you don't find relief with one doctor, try another because since it is a "hands on" approach I absolutely belief that some will be better than others.

Good luck.

 

That's interesting. I live in Colorado Springs and I actually have an appointment with Dr. Foster in April. My thinking was that I might need someone to actually perform a serious surgical procedure eventually if I don't get control of this through alternative means. What I don't get is how a doctor can make a statement like "I don't believe Acyclovir helps." Based on what research? Based on what evidence? I have a peer reviewed, published paper from a doc at UMass saying it does. When I gave the Gacek paper to my last OTO, he said it wouldn't help. When I asked why, he had no good answer.

I feel for you though. Seeing intermittent results gives you some hope, yet what good is it if it doesn't last?

One thing you might look at, or ask your current chiro about(if you haven't already)... what kinds of micro stressors might be contributing the adjustments failing. Sleep? Stress? Various kinds of life patterns, how you drive, how you sit, what kind of job you have, etc.

What technique does your current chiro use? Dr. Burcon uses the Blair method(according to 1 source I read), but even he acknowledges that different upper cervical techniques will work differently for different people, some better than others. There are 5-10 different upper cervical adjustment techniques. Might be good to try a chiro who uses a different technique. Toggle recoil or orthospinology.

 

As a matter of interest, here is a list of the different upper cervical adjustment techniques.

http://www.upcspine.com/tech.htm

 

And a really great read if you are interested in chiropractic, spinal alignment and how it impacts our disease...

http://hearinglosshelp.com/weblog/atlas-adjustments-alleviate-menieres-disease.php

 

Let me clarify that I liked Dr Foster very much and when she said Acyclovir wouldn't work she may have been speaking specifically about my case. I went to her because I had read that she also has Menieres. I asked her about it. She had surgery years ago. If I were thinking of trying surgery I would really consider going back there.

The current UCC Dr I see uses the Palmer method which is very different from the Blair method Dr Burcon used. The current one is much more gentle then Dr Burcon's method but I have about the same outcome with both. Neither cracks your neck and that was important to me. I have another appointment Friday and will ask some of the questions you suggested.
Thanks for the ideas.