But, is there any biochemical evidence that any of the molecular components of Cannabis sativa actually suppress herpes viruses; inasmuch as there is now overwhelming evidence that herpes viral infections are the root cause of the vast majority of Meniere's cases. If no such evidence exits, using C. sativa against Meniere's is just another form of symptom-wacking. Symptoms may, for a while, be suppressed, but the underlying cause of the disease is unaddressed and the disease and its symptoms will persist or grow. Any authenticated cases where C. sativa therapy brought persisting relief (particularly without any of the multitude of side effects know for the plant)? --John of Ohio
Cocaine, morphine, and a host of other very psychoactive (if not outright poisonous) molecules exist naturally in plants. Whether their origins are by Special Creation or evolution is utterly irrelevant to their safe ingestion. I am a specialist in native plants (a biologist who studies and restores these in natural environments). One does not intelligently choose to ingest some plant just because it naturally exists. I would suggest that no one, for example, take chomp on a Cicuta maculata leaf, water hemlock. It looks almost identical to wild carrot; but you'll be convulsing to death within moments. Horrible leaf-borne neurotoxin therein. All natural, either by God or evolution. --John of Ohio
John... the second post in this thread. Suppressive effect of delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol on herpes simplex virus infectivity in vitro. Lancz G1, Specter S, Brown HK. Abstract Delta-9-Tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) was found to reduce the infectivity of herpes simplex virus and was without effect against adenovirus type 2 or poliovirus. The effective THC concentration resulting in an 80% decrement in virus viability was dependent upon the presence or absence of serum in the incubation mixture, as a 5% serum concentration decreased the drug activity by approximately 50-fold. THC-mediated inactivation of herpes simplex virus was both time and dose dependent and did not result in virion disassembly or clumping. The THC-related effect was not influenced by the pH of the suspending medium, suggesting that the mechanism of inactivation differed from that associated with the thermal inactivation of the virus. Thus, the data suggest that THC preferentially reduces the infectivity of the enveloped herpes simplex virus, and that this activity is modulated by the presence of serum proteins. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1848937?dopt=Abstract Inhibition of cell-associated herpes simplex virus type 2 glycoproteins by delta 9-tetrahydrocannabinol. Mishkin EM, Cabral GA. Abstract This study was conducted to define the effect of micromolar concentrations of delta 9-tetrahydrocannabinol (delta 9-THC) on the biosynthesis and expression of herpes simplex virus type 2 (HSV2)-specified glycoproteins. Dose-related reductions in all species of virus glycoproteins were recorded by one-dimensional SDS-polyacrylamide gel electrophoresis (SDS-PAGE) and autoradiography of [14C]glucosamine-labeled infected Vero cells treated with 10(-7) to 10(-5) M delta 9-THC. A drug dose-related depletion of the mature HSV2 major envelope glycoprotein complex (119-kDa average molecular weight), accompanied by accumulation of immature unglycosylated species, was demonstrated by two-dimensional SDS-PAGE in concert with Western immunoblotting or autoradiography. Light and electron microscopy immunoperoxidase staining revealed that delta 9-THC effected depletion of 119-kDa determinants from the infected cell surface. This depletion occurred concomitantly with accumulation of 119-kDa components at the perinucleus. However, the expression of 119-kDa glycoproteins on the virion envelope was not affected. These results indicate that delta 9-THC inhibits the synthesis, maturation, and cellular transport of HSV2-specified glycoproteins. Decreased expression of virus glycoproteins on the infected cell surface may affect host immune responsiveness to HSV2. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3033681?dopt=Abstract The effect of delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol on herpes simplex virus replication. Blevins RD, Dumic MP. Abstract Both herpes simplex virus type 1 (HSV-1) and herpes simplex virus type 2 (HSV-2) failed, in an identical fashion to replicate and produce extensive c.p.e. in human cell monolayer cultures which were exposed (8 h before infection, at infection, or 8 h p.i.) to various concentrations of delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol. Similar results were obtained with a plaque assay utilizing confluent monkey cells. Possible mechanisms for this antiviral activity are discussed. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6255077?dopt=Abstract I'm no scientist, do these not indicate some level of effectiveness against the herpes virus? And yes. One should not just randomly ingest whatever they want just because God made it. But cannabis and humans have a long standing and well known relationship. We've been using it for thousands of years and regardless of what you or I say in this discussion, we will continue to use it for thousands more. That much is fact. And yet, it doesn't kill people and can markedly make our lives better. For meniere's disease, it's not just symptom whacking. It is addressing the root cause. I've read a couple reports from folks who use it to treat meniere's disease, and they say that when they stop, the vertigo returns.
Here is one guy. "I've been using marijuana to help alleviate meniere's symptoms for about 4 years. Before being prescribed, I had fairly regular attacks (about 1 every month or so). Since I've started smoking I've only had 4 attacks (nothing in the past 2 years). I've also watched my sodium intake and try to stay in shape." In the comment section, half way down this page... http://www.mylifeandmenieresdisease.com/2012/02/menieres-disease-and-marijuana.html Then. Read through the comment section on this page... https://cannablog.wordpress.com/2006/09/30/doctors-say-cannabis-treats-menieres-disease/ Tons of anecdotal evidence that cannabis is good medicine for this disease. Here is a good one... A user named "Mike" writes...
I don't know of any human studies. But, there is anecdotal evidence that it is doing good things. Here is another one from one of the pages I linked above. This guy stopped using cannabis, and his symptoms returned. "Yesterday I was diagnosed with Menieres disease, acute motion disorder, and hyrops/migraine dizziness. I have had these symtoms for many years and self treated with MJ. Since I have stopped MJ my symptoms have gotten worse and much more annoying which is why I went to an audiologist. My 82 year old mother (who as never smoked MJ) suggested that I try smoking again to see if there is an improvement. I found this site seaching for someone to validate my findings that MJ helps with the symtoms of Meniere’s. I would like to try to legitimately use Medical Marijuana but I am nervous to see the doctor who writes the prescription for MJ and I am afraid of walking into a despensary to obtain what I need. I am afraid of being arrested or detained even though my state has “so-called” leagalized MJ. Does anyone have any suggestions to overcoming this fear? My only other option is taking the medication from my doctor that put me to sleep so I cannot function or to buy it illegally. I will appreciate any advise to obtaining legal MJ."
And another... "I have found that if I smoke a little weed I never have an attack. As soon as I go off weed for more than a couple of days I start feeling the symptoms of Meniere’s. I do not have medical marijuana yet. I would like to though."
These anecdotal reports seem to mirror what would probably happen to any one of us who has found relief by virtue of anti-viral medication, if we were to stop taking them.
Can these lengthy periods of no vertigo be accounted for by anything other than herpes virus suppression? Especially when you consider that these folks are not totally symptom free. The virus is still in there trying to do it's evil work, yet it just can't seem to find the traction to do it. That's worth it's weight in gold to me. It would be worth a bit more if it just totally kicked the virus's hind parts, but I'll take what I can get.
A concern is that thc has immunosuppressive qualities, even if it alleviates symptoms of some diseases. But I am glad you get symptom relief, have you tried antivirals yet?
If it is suppressing the immune system, and the herpes viral hypothesis of meniere's is correct, wouldn't users experience a dramatic increase of their symptoms from cannabis use, instead of a reduction? And yes. I am on acyclovir. I initially started using cannabis to deal with the attacks. I had lost 80LBS in just a couple months and was close to killing myself. The valium and phergan cocktail did nothing to help me control the attacks. I was puking for hours regardless of taking double doses of that stuff. Cannabis changed all of that over night. That's why it seems like such a potent thing to use for this disease. If it is helping to suppress the herpes virus AND it helps me deal with the individual attacks... well hot damn. That's some good stuff right there. lol
Regarding immune system suppression... webmd has this to say.. http://www.webmd.com/lupus/news/20030415/cannabis-may-suppress-immune-system Inflammation and the inner ear anyone? And no direct link has been shown regarding lowered immunity against infection, the point of most interest to this audience. And if there was a real suppression of the immune system, then frequent cannabis users would be more prone to disease and being sick, right? My co-worker uses regularly. He's the one who turned me onto the stuff. He almost never gets sick I'm telling you guys... God's medicine for the human condition.
I've also noticed a dramatic reduction in my allergy symptoms... AND, I've stopped taking allergy shots and anti-histamines. My allergies were what started this whole merry-go-round for me. I've had non-stop congestion and runny nose issues since I moved to Colorado 15 years ago. The last couple months? Nadda. AND I've stopped using other means of controlling my allergies.
Then where are all the cannabis users suffering from these problems? There is no shortage of people who use large amounts of cannabis. If it were at all likely to create immune system problems for those people, wouldn't that be easy to find?
Immune system activity, cannabis and HIV. There's an interesting combination. If cannabis were causing immune system problems of note, wouldn't an HIV sufferer be well advised to stay the hell away from it? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/11/marijuana-hiv_n_4767901.html
Please understand Vicki. I'm an intense guy and I love only a few things more than a good spirited debate. But if we were sitting down at the same table right now face to face, I would have nothing but love and hugs for you, and a great big smile. I do feel strongly about this topic, but I want you to know just how much you mean to me. Your posts and information have been instrumental in what success I have had in fighting this disease. Thank you. I also have aspergers, and so I don't always fully understand how my tone is interpreted by others. If I sound like I'm defensive or if my posts feel a little cutting, it's mostly because I often miss things when interacting with others.