1997 Study: The new concept for viral polyganglionitis of the head and neck

As detailed and cogent as this paper is, it will be utterly disregarded by American medicine for two reasons. First, it's a bit old, from the last century. Can't possibly of any use today. But secondly, the bigger hurdle for acceptance is that the research was conducted and published --- of all places --- in South Africa. Conventional wisdom here is that all applicable medical wisdom is here, in America. Perspectives on causes and treatments of Meniere's disease held to be valid in other countries are simply rejected here. Only American perspectives and understandings of Meniere's and associated topics are taught and retained.

Think not? Why, then, is SERC, betahistine, the prescribed drug of choice for Meniere's in the rest of the world, including all of Europe and Canada to the north? Overwhelming clinical evidence that SERC is beneficial. But few American practitioners even know it exists.

The vinpocetine in my regimen (http://www.zoominternet.net/~kcshop/JOH.pdf) is known as caviton in Russia and Eastern Europe, where it is a drug of choice for Meniere's. For us, it's an over the counter supplement, requiring no prescription. The FDA absurdly regards it as useless (but, thankfully, safe). American physicians have never heard of it and would never prescribe or recommend it.

Medicine in the modern era (1800+) has always been extremely resistant to new understandings and treatments, with the lone exception of antibiotics in the 1940s. Pasteur and others definitely proved the germ theory of disease in the last quarter of the 19th century; yet, many physicians continued to insist, even into the 1920s, that most diseases derived from miasmatic ("bad, re-breathed") air.

We are stuck with that modern medical problem, in regard to the aetiology of Meniere's as being utterly idiopathic, of unknown and unknowable causes. Baloney. The evidence for herpetic infections as the root and direct cause of most Meniere's cases is today overwhelming. But if your physician didn't learn that back in med school, where he trained under the most brilliant minds (like his) on the planet, no other perspective or understanding is plausible. "Don't you dare show me some new, published Meniere's finding! I am the DOCTOR! No patient is going to tell ME how to run MY practice. Meniere's is idiopathic, PERIOD. Now, the nurse will help you sign-up for the expensive inner-ear surgery I've planned for you. Next patient, please."

--John of Ohio

 

Is it the virus that causes mm or is it the infection that moves in when the virus moves out that causes mm.

It is a very profound question and one that cannot be taken lightly because they are two entirely different treatment protocols.

If mm is an immune dysfunction like we all believe than why do we still have symptoms of mm even after using av's. ----- my guess is the virus came, av's supresses it but some sort of infection moved in (bacteria, fungus, ect....) when the immune system was weakened.
Where that infection resonates or how it travels is anybody's guess but we do know the endo lymphatic sac is the last defens the body has to clear infection and when it becomes overwhelmed is that where the mm/hydrops starts.

Yes AV's may take the load off the immune system but the infectiin /bacteria/fungus ect.... that moved in still remains.

Just how many of us have had sinus/Sinusitis issues and teeth issues/root canals and stomach/biwel/stool issues. I believe this is/ was mm but it was subclinical for many years and finally the infection spread and the endo sac/ clearing house of last resort just gave up and said fuck it, I have fighting this for months/years and just gives up.

Just my 2 cents and maybe that and a few bucks might get me a hot dog somewhere.

Good night to all and to all a good night.

Always remember it was not the AIDS Virus itself that killed it was the infections that destroyed organs that eventually took lives. ---- we can now supresses the virus early enough to prevent the infection and that is what is saving/extending lives
With mm our infection has already taken hold before we get ear symptoms.

Think about it!!!!!
Now that I got that off my chest I can go rub one out

 

BD I agree with you except one point, antivirals don't kill a virus, nothing can kill viruses at this moment in time. SO although AV's can push a virus into its latent state its still there and I found studies saying that HSV can even be active while in its latent state.

 

Two points. Indeed, viruses can't be killed, as they are not alive. They are not living microbes; merely packets of RNA or DNA that hijack cellular processes, forcing the cell to create (replicate) more viral particles (virions). Antiperpetic drugs (and lysine) are able only to interfere with the synthesis of new viral chemicals, stopping or suppressing viral activity. But those viral nucleotides, the RNA or DNA, may still remain dormant in the affected cells, perhaps for decades

Ideally, antiherpetic treatments so thoroughly disrupt viral replication that viral populations are reduced below any pathogenic level. Hence, no more symptoms. And, with a functioning immune system, innate immunity can thereafter restrain any viral activity.

The question of post-herpetic tissue infection is a good one. Might a bacterium or fungus enter virus-damaged cells or tissues and thereby cause inflammation or organ dysfunctions that result in Meniere's symptoms? I don't know of any evidence that bacteria do this. If they did, pussy, bacterial lesions would then form in the inner ear tissues, causing not only typical Meniere's symptoms but great pain.

But there is some evidence that some fungi can infect Meniere's-affected inner ears. Treatment with antifungal drugs can be helpful. It's not a topic much discussed here, as only a few have encountered and have been treated for this. But in chronic, recalcitrant cases unresolved by antiherpetic approaches (with can include lysine), antifungal therapy should be considered. A physician will have to order a bunch of tests to detect (if possible) the presence of fungi in the inner ear.

--John of Ohio

 

John,

With all due respect you do not have any idea about how infection comes about and resonates within cells and tissue.

Your focus continues to be in the ear. I beieve the ear is not the issue it is only the last organ that becomes infected due to the endo sac being the last place that crap is cleared. The endo sac which is infected or damaged is an immunity organ.

With all due respect, the inflammation is and has been there all along in the form of IBS, Loose Stools, teeth/root canals, Sinusitis, post nasal drip. Those things should be addressed BEFORE it moves onto and overwhelms the most important immunity organ the endo sac.

I am not saying that a virus is not involved but the focus should be on infection, by the time it reaches/spreads to the ear it is too late as hydrops develops.

If your theory is right and it may well be than you should be telling people to consult a Virologist or an Infectious Disease specialist not an inner ear specialist. If it is viral than encourage people to see a viral/Infectious disease Dr.

Don't chastise Oto's and EnT's virus is not their specialty.

Go to the right specialist and get the blood test done.

 

BD I agree because many of us including myself have stomach issues, sinus issues, dental issues.
In fact I got MM when I was 13 BUT for a couple of years before I had terrible tummy aches. I was 12 years old and had a upper GI series and the test showed I had a spasmodic stomach. To this day I still suffer with stomach pain a lot and IBS.
Also my mom made us go to the dentist every 6 months since I was young, every time I went I would have 20-30 cavities. Either the dentist was a crook or my teeth were really bad. to this day I suffer with a lot of dental issues. I have had so many roots canals, fillings, oral surgeries, extractions.

I also was prone to sore throats and cold sores. I got so many sore throats, I had my tonsils removed at age 8 I think. I have always gotten sick a lot and took a long time to get better, especially with sinus infections as I got older.
So I had all these conditions before Meniere's and then got Meniere's so I do believe these infections and illnesses was a precursor for me to develope MM.

 

With all due respect on my part, I've scrutinized the information and results (published in a peer-reviewed medical journal) of Dr. Gacek in Boston; which show conclusively the central and causative roles herpes viruses play in Meniere's.

If the systemic (whole-body) infections that you associate with IBS, diarrhea, dental infections, nasal infections, and others are root causes, why, then, is Meniere's relatively infrequent; compared to the millions who have the conditions you referred to? Why would such infections so rarely progress to Meniere's?

And how, for example, would you first treat IBS, dental infections, and the others, so as to keep any of these from progressing to Meniere's? Antibiotics? Antivirals? Antifungals? Anti-inflammatories?

The only ones shown to bring relief to Meniere's patients are the specific antiherpetic drugs Dr. Gacek prescribes; as well as the lysine of my regimen. Neither of those agents target systemic "infections," merely the active herpes viral lesions in the inner ear or its associated nerves.

Interestingly, I've never had any of the conditions you suggest that lead eventually to Meniere's. I had a full-blown, professionally-diagosed case of Meniere's, which came under complete and lasting (now, for over 10 yrs) with my Meniere's treatment regimen, which uses lysine to suppress herpes viral replication. Lysine does not effectively treat any of putative root-causative conditions you mentioned. I (and many dozens of others) got complete symptomatic relief, nonetheless.

And I will certainly chastise any physician who refuses to examine and utilize the profound and transformative data Dr. Gacek provides. You are in error to believe only a virologist could interpret or understand it. Frankly, any university life science undergraduate can read and understand Gacek's paper.

What, dare tell, do you say to the physician, virologist/infectious disease specialist, or other, that authoritatively claims Meniere's to be "idiopathic." You full well know that's the prevailing notion. Neither your views nor mine on the aetiology of Meniere's are accepted or considered by so many physicians --- each of whom thereby deserves chastisement for this neglect or error. Patients suffer (badly) for it.

--John of Ohio

 

John,

You can have the last word.

As I tell my wife it just isn't worth going around and around about, as with my wife I will say "your right" but think this is 20 minutes of my life I cannot get back and there are so many other fun things I could be doing with my time.

Cheers

 

I don't think one single thing is causing everyone's Meniere's symptoms.

Some of us respond to antivirals, but not all.

Some respond to NUCCA, but not all.

Low sodium diet does nothing for me, but I read on here it here it is helpful to some. Etc. , etc.

I think you are on to something, bulldogs, for some sufferers. I have had dental, sinus, post nasal drip issues since I was a child. Your assertion makes sense to me. Thanks for posting it.

Maggie