Hey folks, first post, I've been interested reading through the board the last few days. My question is regarding responses to taking something antiviral. I've only started lysine so far, took 4x1g yesterday away from food. I had a terrible night, migraine, back and leg pain, and today I feel like I have half a flu. I'm wondering if people have had similar experiences or if I should attribute this to something else. As I understand there is no herxheimer/endotoxin reaction with viruses, I've seen some comments on "cytokyine storm". Any comments appreciated.
A lot of folks have found that antivirals make things worse for a couple of weeks before improving. So don't panic. Also, valacyclovir works much better and more quickly than lysine, so you should try to get a script for that. Nothing wrong with taking both concurrently.
Thanks Scott. I haven't had some of these symptoms before. I have some lauricidin and aciclovir on the way. I'd like to understand what's going on, if anyone has any ideas.
Hi Res, I stopped taking Lysine because it made me feel kind of ill, very light headed with a racing heart and I also kept having the sensation that I was falling. I knew nothing about Herxing at the time and just assumed it didn't agree with me. I've read of a few others here that also didn't get on with Lysine - though happily the vast majority on it appear to receive the benefits of it without any side effects. When I heard about Monolaurin I started researching it and consequently came across the die off effect. It occurred to me that this is what I could have been experiencing with the Lysine, and on researching it further came across others that had experienced die off from lysine! It would seem that most are able to take it at full dose without any side effects whatsoever, but not so for everyone. Because of the reaction I had with Lysine I started the Monolaurin very very slowly. In my eagerness to feel an improvement I believe I went too high too quickly with the Lysine. I seem to have a low tolerance to many medications and often only need a little of the dose to get an effect. I'm now on day 25 of the Monolaurin and so far no spins (touch wood) and I feel so much better in so many ways! I've currently only built up to 5 pellets twice a day (a fraction of the recommended dose), but I'm still experiencing die off symptoms each time I up the dose. In a lot of ways these symptoms feel similar to those I got on the Lysine, only milder I assume because I'm taking it so slowly this time. From what I've read I think there is a strong possibility that the symptoms you experienced could be due to die off ( though I am no expert by any means! ). It is my understanding that die off is caused by the toxins released by dying pathogens and this applies equally to fungal/viral/ bacterial infections, and the strength of the die off is only equal to the amount of pathogens being killed off at any one time. Are you usually sensitive to medications? Perhaps you also need to start slowly. I hope you get to the bottom of it and that these symptoms soon pass. Good luck with the acyclovir and Lauradin. Hopefully you're on your way to getting on top of this
Hey Keefer, thanks for sharing your experience. I don't doubt that something is going on with some people, when large numbers of some bacteria are killed off you get a flood of endotoxin, the effects of this are herxheimer reaction. Viruses do not have endotoxin so it has to be a different mechanism unless bacteria are also dying. For endotoxin you can mitigate the effect by taking activated charcoal and some citrus flavinoids, I'm wondering if there's some way to do the same with a viral effect. Perhaps being less aggressive is the hack I'm looking for. I'm generally only over-sensitive to stimulants, most meds have little effect. How soon did you get relief with monolaurin?
i have been thinking and wondering along similar lines. Many say you get die off symptoms when attacking viral infections (as well as fungal/bacterial) yet the science states otherwise. Other Science states that in many cases of long term inflammation caused by viral infections we will also often see secondary bacterial infection at the same site. There is so much conflicting info out there that it's hard to get a good handle on it - but as you suggest, something is going on! I experienced relief with the Monolaurin almost instantly. I started on only one pellet for the first 3 days yet it appears to have instantly worked for me as a vertigo suppressant. On a couple of occasions I've felt I'm about to spin yet haven't. On these occasions I've had all the other symptoms of a spin but without the actual vertigo. The ear pressure that I used to have has been completely absent for this past week. I am walking upright, fast and in a straight line which I haven't been able to do for the longest time. I can turn my head at a normal speed without it making me dizzy, and I can now bend down to do things like paint my toe nails without feeling ill. This is all blowing my mind - what exactly is going on that enables this tiny little pellet at a tiny little dose to change my life in 3-4 weeks. I really want to understand the mechanics of it. To me it's miraculous and if I hadn't experienced it myself I seriously would have doubted it could have such a powerful effect. I know it's still early days but somehow I just know this is different. I've had before long periods of remission and also periods of months and months of awful spins, some lasting 15 hours, but I'm now feeling better in a way I'd forgotten was possible. Sorry for the ramble, think I'm high on life at the moment Fingers crossed that you also experience great benefits from it, and that everyone else also finds relief one way or another!
Thanks for sharing your experience again Keefer, I'm feeling a little better today and slept quite well. I hope your improvement keeps up.
I now suspect this was due to "extra virgin" coconut oil, I usually use refined and some of the "natural" processing creates endotoxin and other biological toxins. I've noticed it gets worse 3hrs after taking the CO.
Thats a very high dose. Be sure to drink plenty of water. The kidneys and liver have to deal with everything we put in our bodies. Nothing is 100% benign in large quantities.
I have no idea. Is there any reason to think with that huge dose of antiviral you need other stuff as well?
I've stopped lysine for the moment, I'll try again when I'm recovered to see if it was the cause. I think if there are multiple components that can help, and they work via different mechanisms, that you can theoretically benefit from using them all, regardless of dose.
Stuff shoved into pills is much more concentrated than food-borne supplements. My doctor told me not to take more than 500 mg of lysine per day.