Vinpocetine

My thoughts? How might they be equal to or more signficant then the "thoughts" of the unknown writer(s) of the text you provide?

Who offered these thoughts on vinpocetine? And how do they actually compare to the experiences of those who actually take vinpocetine? Please, post the clinical or published evidence that vinpocetine has any of the hazards your text suggests. I've not seen any of it, and I've been taking and researching vinpocetine for about 13 yrs now.

Here's a report on vinpocetine's efficacy in chronic inflammatory diseases such as atherosclerosis, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD), arthritis, infectious diseases and cancer:

Findings reported in article published online on May 6, 2010 in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences suggest that vinpocetine, a derivative of vincamine (from the periwinkle plant), could be useful for the treatment of chronic inflammatory diseases such as atherosclerosis, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD), arthritis, infectious diseases and cancer. Vinpocetine is a dietary supplement that has been used for many years to help prevent cerebrovascular disorders and memory loss, however, the compound's potential benefit in other disorders has not been explored.

Chen Yan, PhD of the University of Rochester Medical Center's Aab Cardiovascular Research Institute and colleagues report that vinpocetine acts as an anti-inflammatory agent in a mouse model of lung inflammation and in cell cultures. Vinpocetine was found to inhibit tumor necrosis factor-alpha induced nuclear factor-kappa-beta (NF-kb ) activation and the subsequent induction of proinflammatory mediators in endothelial cells, epithelial cells, macrophages, and vascular smooth muscle cells. Vinpocetine works by inhibiting IKK, an enzyme that regulates inflammation by activating NF-kB.

The authors write that despite the well-known involvement of inflammation in disease, current therapies such as steroids and cyclooxygenase inhibitors can have significant long term side effects and new agents are urgently needed. "Inflammation is a hallmark of a wide range of human diseases, so there is great potential for vinpocetine to be used for several indications," noted coauthor and Rochester Medical Center CEO Bradford C. Berk, MD, PhD.
"What is extremely exciting and promising about these findings is vinpocetine's excellent safety profile," Dr Yan remarked. "Previously, most drugs tested in this area have failed, not because of a lack of efficacy, but because of safety issues. We're very encouraged by these results and believe vinpocetine has great potential for the treatment of COPD and other inflammatory diseases."

"In managing chronic conditions such as COPD, it is crucial to have a therapy that can be used safely over the long term," added coauthor Jian-Dong Li, MD, PhD, who is a professor at the University of Rochester's Department of Microbiology and Immunology "There is a great need for a drug like vinpocetine, because patients currently have no good options when it comes to long-term care."

--John of Ohio

 

Text from the toxicology PDF abstract posted above says this about clinically-tested toxicology of vinpocetine in lab rats.

“However, doses of 25-100 mg/kg vinpocetine given via gastric intubation for up to six months did not result in mortality or adverse effects on a variety of endpoints.”

A 120 lb human weighs 54.4 kg. To take the highest dose in the sentence above, would mean that a 120lb person would have to take 5.444 grams, or 5444 mg. At the25 mg/kg dose, the 120 lb person would take 1.36 gm, or 1360 mgs. At any of those dose concentrations, no side effects were recorded in lab rats.

In my regimen, I recommend that users take between 10 and 30 mg. WAY below even the rat safety dosages in the toxicology document you referenced.

The safety of vinpocetine is affirmed by toxicology dosing of rats; and by the virtual absence of anyone having any side effects, save for the one fellow whose agranulosis was attributed to vinpocetine (with little backup study to affirm — mere coincidence?), and a number of incidents of tachycardia.

Compare the frequency and severity of vinpocetine side effects with most common drugs. No comparison.

Those concerned about side effects from VMSs, vitamins, minerals, and supplements, sold over the counter with no prescription should simply not take any of these. Stay with the stuff your doctor prescribes, as you will sleep better knowing that all of these are FDA-tested and approved and are perfectly safe, with no side effects to worry about. You can bet your life on that (as many do).

--John of Ohio

 

Vicki,

Stay away from vinpocetine, as you are certain it's dangerous.

I'm certain it's not. I use it with success, as do tens of thousands. Simple as that. Neither you, me, nor your physician, is aware of any reported cases of any of the side effects you list, with the exception of the ONE guy and his blood problem, and those very few who have had tachycardia.

If hazardous side effects are so common with vinpocetine, why aren't any of these listed on the vinpocetine bottles? Why don't the manufacturers warn their customers of such hazards? Wouldn't they be in great legal troubes for failing to do this, putting their customers' health in jeopardy?

By the way, if you read the warning insert pages of ANY presciption blood thinner, you are warned simply not to TAKE ANYTHING ELSE. Table salt, sugar, and some common foods can interfere with antiocoagulants, not just vinpocetine.

And please note (as you haven't) that in my PDF I urge potential uses of any of the VMSs in my regimen to first consult their physicians before consuming anything I list. What, then, is the problem? Doctors know all cogent medical information, so VMS users are absolutely safe after consulting with their physician. I don't encourage anyone to pop off the shelf stuff without medical advice. Did you read my PDF, where I make this recommendation?
http://www.zoominternet.net/~kcshop/JOH.pdf

"Those who elect to undertake this Meniere’s regimen are advised to first gain the approval of their personal medical professional."

--John of Ohio

 

I view this like the package insert on drugs. It's true, it may or may not affect you. With prescrition drugs, we hope our doctors are looking out for us but often they are not. How many have had oto's prescribe diuretics but who never did a blood test to check on sodium, potassium or kidney function. None of mine did. They did not even inquire as to what other drugs I might be taking precribed by some dr other than them or what supplements I might be taking. My family dr does that and I appreciate it. When we reach a certain age it is very likely we are taking some other dugs already that may interact with anything new we add to the mix.

All substances that can, in small quantities, make a change in our body for the good have equal ability to make a change that may be bad for us. Whether they are OTC, prescription or VMS makes not difference. Whether the substance is natural (which includes things like hemlock or aminita) or completely manufactured like aspirin etc etc makes no difference to the laws of physics. The cells don't care about governmental bodies or interest groups.

Just everyone go in with open eyes what you put in your body and keep an eye out for side effects no matter what it is.

 

I take 10 mg of vinpocetine twice a day and it helps with brain fog. I ran this past my ENT and he is ok with me taking it at this dosage.

 

I have taken vinpocetine for years, when I was also taking Plavix and aspirin, suffered two heart attacks, had three stents placed.
I also take vitamin E.

My cardiologist, whom I see regularly, reviews my medications list on every visit, as do the many other doctors I see for different things. Some of THEM take vinpocetine, and my cardiologist (one of the finest in the country, and the head of the ENTIRE medical staff at a leading hospital in my megalopolis, Los Angeles), said it was fine, as did my rheumatologist and two internists.

Perhaps, as with Menieres itself, we are each different in how we tolerate a lot of things. But I would not be "afraid" of vinpocetine, and I would, as JOH recommends IN his regimen, consult with your own doctors about it. I will take the provision of cautionary data here as intended to be informative, and not as an attack on JOH. Taken in that spirit it is fine. Just be sophisticated in reacting to it.

And no, I am not related to JOH, make no money off of his regimen in any way, don't even know his real name. But I believe his regimen has helped keep the "progression" of my Menieres less than it otherwise would have been. Though this past week has been my worst in many months, for a variety of reasons.

I am about to set an appointment with Dr. Derebery at the House Ear Institute, and will be sure to include the fact that I am using the JOH regimen along with the other four feet or so of records I will send to her. And my cardiologist recommended her, and knows both her and Menieres pretty well, so I rather suspect she will not condemn it. And she is one of the leading Menieres authorities in the country, if not the world.

 

With a few exceptions, I think people get that, Vicki. You research EVERYTHING and post the finds which I appreciate, and I think others do too.

 

JOH is overly defensive regarding VMS. That's just how he is. Accept it and move on

I read what he posts, I read what you post and then I make conclusions based on what my body can or cannot handle. My body cannot handle Vinpocetine. It gave me tachycardia, which is weird because I have a low heart rate. My resting HR is 42 bpm.

So, no, I wouldn't take it.

 

Vicki, I appreciate your ongoing research and posting of articles/studies of potential interest to others. Especially in light of the fact that you have your Meniere's reasonably controlled and therefore could simply be walking away from this board.

I think it is important to share information without others criticising. If someone has experienced difficulty it is easy to share that side without making it appear that the initial information was baseless. Especially in light of the face that every person's body is different and each one of us reacts to Meniere's differently as well.

I find this type of alert extremely helpful as I personally believe that too often people "assume" at all vitamins and supplements are safe. I personally believe that a lot of people do more research on prescription drugs than things available over the counter. Again, that is a personal belief and not one intended to solicit 100 replies on what each person researches but just my general observations over the years.

Vicki, thank you for sharing this information. I have not been taking any other supplements since starting a/v because I wanted to get a true "read" on the success. But I was taking this and while I don't think it impacts anything healthwise for me it is good info to know.