I don't understand John's wording in the last reply, but I'm pretty sure that's fine as what you described would be on an empty stomach, I assume. Like, unless you eat right before bed and then get up to pee within 2 hours
I posted a few times on the old thread, but just throwing my name in the hat that this regimen seems to have helped my symptoms. I've been vertigo free going on 7 months now, and on the regimen for 8 months. At first, my symptoms worsened but overtime have significantly improved. I'm taking the original regimen still with lemon bioflavonoids and MSM, and frankly, afraid to switch it up as its improved my symptoms so much, so I'll continue sticking with that. I might add the vitamin C and E into the mix and remove my multi-vitamin supplement (which includes those, but at much lower doses). I still have fluctuating hearing loss and tinnitus in one ear, but both have seemed to improve and stabilize. I'll reply back here in some months and continue reporting back. Thanks JOH.
John, I wonder if you have collected any results in a formal kind of way such as a spreadsheet of anonymised feedback from people who have tried it so people could get an idea of "it has helped X% of people who tried it" and an idea of how long it takes on average?
Ah, I see you address this in the new document (not sure if it was in the old one). > I have now recorded 170 individual reports from other users of the regimen, and over 80% (86%, in fact) describe personal successes. It would be amazing if there was detailed data on how long different people took to respond etc.
My spreadsheet, detailing the relative number of people with Meniere's who diligently tried my lysine-based treatment regimen, was able only to indicate, record those who claimed that the regimen significantly reduced symptoms, allowing them to live essentially unaffected by the disease. As a biologist (in an entirely different field) I fully recognize the statistical deficiencies of the data I've collected. Ideally, someone would run an authentic double-blind clinical study, where an adequate number of Meniere's patients (several hundred, at least) would participate in the clinical study. All participants would believe that they are taking the authentic substances in the regimen. But a large fraction would be in the control arm of the study, taking look-alike substances that had no biological activity. Instead of lysine, some other amino acid would be taken. Same substitution for all of the other elements. At the start of the study, no one, neither patients participating, nor medical personnel administering the regime elements or recording would know who was in the placebo (control) arm of the study (getting the fake elements) and those in the experimental arm, getting the real substances. At the end of the study, a computer is unlocked, which reveals who got what. Were the positive results merely placebo effects, where merely belief in the regimen produced positive outcomes, or was there a significant therapeutic advantage by those taking the real substances? Looking at the data, and hearing the stories from those who volunteered their experiences and results with the regimen, I'm certain that it's authentic; not mere a placebo effect phenomenon. But, it would take hundreds of thousands of dollars to run a proper double-blind clinical study on the regimen. Inasmuch as no real drugs are involved, and no one could profit from the discovery or proof of therapeutic efficacy, no such study is likely to ever be conducted. --John of Ohio
I hope I didn't come across as critical. I am grateful for the knowledge you have shared and I am myself following a tweaked version of your regimen. From the evidence I see it seems at least in some subset of people with Meniere's a virus is implicated and the positive feedback you've collected seems to back this up. Really I am just curious about the data you have collected and it's good to hear you have a spreadsheet. I agree a double blind study would be ideal and I also agree that it's unlikely for the reasons you outlined. The only thing that gives me hope there is some studies out of Japan that show things like exercise and water consumption showing great results too. Maybe one day we'll see a "John of Ohio regimen study"!
Like you I would love to see long-term data from JOH's regimen, but from my own extensive "research" I can see that it has seemed to help many people, and it's unfortunate how many don't know about it. Nothing in the regimen can hurt us, so I feel good about taking it long-term. I started the JOH protocol after my official diagnosis in April, then I visited a specialist in my state who believes in the viral theory and put me on antivirals. Now that I am beginning to taper off the high dose of antiviral, I plan to add in the Lysine again from JOH as that was the only thing I stopped when I was put on high dose antivirals. As far as how long it takes to help, while some people occasionally report improvement within days to weeks, I've seen numerous reports of it taking months or longer. My ENT specialist who prescribed antivirals states in their information that it takes several months to notice an effect from antivirals. I have noticed marked improvement within the first 2 months but still not symptom free. I think exercise helps just about every problem we have as humans, and for me personally I do feel better and have less ear fullness when I increase my water intake. I hope you have good results with JOH and I am so grateful for him as I believe he has selflessly helped countless people.
I started on the JoH regimen a few years ago now and it has worked extremely well for me. It probably took close to a year to get the full effect, though it started helping within months of starting it. At this point my only symptoms are tinnitus (which is usually low enough that I don't even think about it though occasionally it flares up for a few days if I exhaust myself too much), fatigue, and occasionally (but not often) a headache. My hearing even seemed to improve somewhat. I just wish I could reduce the fatigue...
I am so happy it is still working for you. Just out of curiosity, do you continue to follow a low sodium diet? That's the one thing I am hoping I can eventually get a little more relaxed on as I continue the JOH regimen. Low sodium has been the hardest lifestyle change for me.
I actually never went on a low sodium diet as I didn't really feel it was causing problems. I pretty much only had symptoms after getting a bad sleep or getting overly fatigued. I should also note I'm only taking L-lysine, vitamin C, and vitamin D at this point after taking the whole regimen for maybe 2 years and I decided to see if it made any difference if I stopped taking each thing as the bottles ran out. I haven't noticed any difference. I'll always continue to take the L-lysine, however.
JOH -- could you remind me what gives you confidence the reduction of symptoms is due to the regimen and not burnout in this case? You mention the left ear has burned out already, hence vertigo and fluctuations would cease. For those bilateral, I believe anecdotally it seems the opposite ear is less severely affected than the original and could plateau earlier, but I could be wrong on this. I am acknowledging though that of course we have many positive reports from patients from the regimen and there is existing science to back up its mechanism of action.
Actively replicating herpes virus infections don't simply or spontaneously "burnout." They continue until the tissues they are in are destroyed by the inflammation the activity of the virus causes. That's exactly what happened to the tissues in my left ear --- before I began taking the elements of my regimen. After my left ear began to deteriorate the virus migrated to my still-good right ear. Fortunately, by then I perfected the earliest version of my regimen, centered on lysine. With that, I was able to stop the replication of the herpes virus, before it could cause any permanent damage. If herpes virus infections in the inner ear commonly "burned out" on their own, Meniere's disease would commonly terminate on its own, before causing any damage. But, not the case. Simply, in most cases Meniere's persists and strengthens until the inner ear is destroyed. No burnout. --John of Ohio
Thanks JOH! Very informative. A few follow-up questions: Several ENTs have told me that patients with cochlear hydrops may experience remission, or the condition may plateau or even 'resolve' spontaneously, whereas Meniere's disease tends to be more destructive and less likely to resolve on its own. In these cases, would this apparent spontaneous improvement in symptoms just be attributed to the herpes virus becoming inactive or not reactivating? I think we've all observed an increase in people with hearing issues following the COVID-19 pandemic and infections. Given the possibility that the COVID-19 virus might contribute to conditions such as hydrops or other inner ear problems as well, how effective would this regimen be for addressing issues related to COVID-19? What is the mechanism by which the virus migrates from one side of the head (or one ear) to the other? My final question concerns the effectiveness of this regimen when the viral load increases. For example, if a patient on this regimen is re-exposed to HSV-1 (which may elevate the viral load), how well does the regimen mitigate the onset of symptoms under these circumstances? To put it more directly: If a person with Meniere's disease is on this regimen and then has close contact with someone who has HSV-1, how would this exposure impact their current Meniere's-related symptoms, and how effective would the regimen be in managing this situation? Should there be no worry, or should we avoid further HSV-1 exposure like the plague?
How might the virus migrate from an infected ear to the contralateral un-infected ear? The same way it got to the first ear. Virions, separate virus particles traveled externally through the air or by physical contact and then diffused into the blood stream and were able to reside in inner ear tissues and there, replicate and cause the virus's inflammation. The replicated virus particles are then transported by the blood stream throughout the body, where in favorable tissues (such as those in the inner ear) the mobile viruses lodge and replicate. A newly infected site. The lysine in the regimen disfigures, disrupts, and neutralizes enzymes required for herps viruses to replicate. Without those enzymes functioning, herpes viruses cannot replicate. Makes no difference where or when the involved viruses came from; either from a current infection, or some newly inhaled viruses. How, might I ask, would you avoid people with HSV-1, or other herpes viruses? How could you know someone had and was shedding herpes viruses? I don't see that either the regimen per se, or lysine in general, has any therapeutic applications to COVID-19. It's not a herpes virus disease. --John of Ohi
I started off with 3000mg (1000mg 3x a day), and after the nausea and vertigo stopped happening I gradually went down to 500mg once in the morning before breakfast.
Primarily, vinpocetine is no longer included. But the updated regimen still works well. --John of Ohio