Does anyone know if taking DAO would reduce the side effects of betahistine? Since DAO works against excess histamines in the gut
John or anyone who has input Let me preface this by saying I only ever had 1 bad vertigo episode, previous mild dizziness wasn't diagnosed as Meniere's. That was in Oct '22, mild Covid-19 and a cold sore followed a week later. In March '23 I woke with extreme tinnitus in my right ear, which had already been diagnosed with hearing loss. It's been almost 6 months since I started daily: - Lysine 3000mg - Vinpocetine 30mg - Lemon Bioflavonoid 1000mg - Vitamin D 1000mg - Ginkgo biloba 60-120mg (about 2 months, it creates acid in my stomach). Prior to starting I only had that one traveling vertigo episode. So, nothing for over a year and a half. 3 months into the protocol, June, I had the most horrible episode ever, which lasted hours and on & off for over a week. I had traveled to in-laws, but stuck to my low-sodium diet, no caffeine, nuts, chocolate or alcohol. I felt a little off the morning of the wedding, took a Dramamine a little late before the 1 hour drive, but was horribly sick! I spent the whole time in a bedroom. Since then I have short vertigo attacks regularly. I also don't feel a significant change in the daily pressure, sound sensitivity or tinnitus (both ears, but the right is definitely worse and has the hearing loss). It is always there and has always varied in degree. My tinnitus was brought down to a more tolerable level by Betahistine in May '23 and I thought was helping against vertigo episodes. My hearing tests have been consistent with medium loss in the right and no additional loss for a year and a half. To be sure to take Lysine on an empty stomach, I take 1 overnight and 2 within the 1st hour of getting up. Could this be a problem? Second, should I be seeing more improvement by now and when do I know to move on from the protocol?
Hi John, (JOH) First of all, I want to sincerely thank you for creating and sharing the JOH Regimen. I was diagnosed August 30, 2024. The first attack was the worsed. It was unknown to me. The second attack was less intense but similarly worrying. The only thing that made sense after this attack is that, what I'm dealing with has a name to it. My left ear is affected. I can still hear but muffled sounds. Its like my ear has water inside. I have tinnitus only in my left ear (whooshing sound, sometimes changes in pitch throughout the day, but lesser at night). I found out about JOH Regimen three months after I was diagnosed. Before JOH Regimen, I was taking Betahistine, Sinupret and Sniff (a nasal spray). It usually takes about a month to finally recover from dizziness after an attack. No longer taking this meds. I'm currently on JOH Regimen. And since then, I haven't had any attack. At first, I did felt the dizzy spell every now and then while starting out with the JOH Regimen. Now its gone. John, I have questions about JOH Regimen, I might not able to post them altogether, the remaining will be on my next post; 1. After taking JOH Regimen for almost three months now, a blister appeared on my lower lip on the right side, I continued to take Lysine and it subsided and disappeared after about two weeks, is this the herpes virus? this is the first time that happened. Did anyone experience this after taking JOH Regimen? 2. After taking JOH Regimen for almost three months, there's a light pinching sensation inside my right ear, hearing is unaffected. Is this Lysine fighting the herpes virus? Did anyone experience this while taking JOH Regimen. 3. Can I take MSM and Vinpocetine together after meal? Can I take MSM, Vinpocetine, Ginkgo Biloba together after meal? 4. Did you avoid certain foods/drinks while taking JOH Regimen? like wheat? coffee? etc. 5. If I'm taking JOH Regimen and somehow got sick like fever, cold or other self-limiting illness, should I pause taking JOH Regimen and take medication first or can I take them simultaneously with the medication? like antibiotics etc? 6. Sometimes I miss a dose of Lysine per day, I take 3,000mg/day usually, sometimes 2,000mg/day? I want to be consistent but sometimes it happens. Is this okay? 7. Does glucose (sugar) increases or affects tinnitus pitch? like if someone takes too much sugar. And does it affects JOH Regimen efficacy? Thank you John (JOH).
Jim, So glad you got the good results so many others have. Here's my answers: 1. After taking JOH Regimen for almost three months now, a blister appeared on my lower lip on the right side, I continued to take Lysine and it subsided and disappeared after about two weeks, is this the herpes virus? this is the first time that happened. Did anyone experience this after taking JOH Regimen? Yes, almost surely this was a herpes virus sore. The lysine didn't have enough time to suppress it. 2. After taking JOH Regimen for almost three months, there's a light pinching sensation inside my right ear, hearing is unaffected. Is this Lysine fighting the herpes virus? Did anyone experience this while taking JOH Regimen. Most likely this results from the formerly swollen ear tissues healing, resuming their healthful size. In the many dozens of regimen user accounts I've received (>200), I have no records of this. 3. Can I take MSM and Vinpocetine together after meal? Can I take MSM, Vinpocetine, Ginkgo Biloba together after meal? Meals shouldn't affect any of those regimen components. 4. Did you avoid certain foods/drinks while taking JOH Regimen? like wheat? coffee? etc. No, I didn't make any dietary changes either before started the regimen, or after. 5. If I'm taking JOH Regimen and somehow got sick like fever, cold or other self-limiting illness, should I pause taking JOH Regimen and take medication first or can I take them simultaneously with the medication? like antibiotics etc? Unless a prescribing physician says otherwise, feel free to continue with the regimen while taking any prescription drugs. They are complementary. 6. Sometimes I miss a dose of Lysine per day, I take 3,000mg/day usually, sometimes 2,000mg/day? I want to be consistent but sometimes it happens. Is this okay? If you miss a dose by some good time (several hours or so), just skip it and resume taking the next dose of lysine at the scheduled time. Missing a dose infrequently will not impede lysine's ability to suppress viral replication and activity. 7. Does glucose (sugar) increases or affects tinnitus pitch? like if someone takes too much sugar. And does it affects JOH Regimen efficacy? I can't see how dietary sugars of any sort can affect tinnitus symptoms. Dietary sugars will have no effects on the regimen. --John of Ohio
Hi John, (JOH) Thank you for your reply. I have follow up questions, I hope you don't mind; 1. I've tried to increase the Lysine dosage to 4,000mg/day a few times and there is a light pinching in my affected ear (left ear), should I continue this dosage (even higher) or maintain the lower dose of 3,000mg/day? 2. Is there any possibilty that the affected ear (left ear) might return to its normal hearing state given the early application of JOH Regimen? I understand that there is no certainty, but would like to hear your opinion on the possibility and also other JOH Regimen users might have encountered similar case. I'm hopefull that early detection/diagnosis and early application of JOH Regimen could help normalize the hearing on the affected ear. 3. This next question might sound redundant covering dietary changes, I just need to ask your opinion about this, because this was the first dietary changes my ENT advised, to avoid salty foods and monosodium? Should I be concerned about this while I'm on JOH Regimen? 4. How long did it took you to take the JOH Regimen in terms of months or years before shifting to Vitamin K, D and Multivitamin with Zinc? I'm just wondering about the time, effort, trial, testing and finalizing the JOH Regimen. I've read somewhere in this forum that you have to test each component of the JOH Regimen. 5. What are the health indicators that guided you or made you decide to no longer take JOH Regimen and to shift to Vitamin K, D and Multivitamin with Zinc? I'm just asking this as my guide to monitor my progress on JOH Regimen. 6. When you first decided to come off the JOH Regimen, was there a moment that you temporarily returned to JOH Regimen and then finally shifted to Vitamin K, D and Multivitamin with Zinc because you finally felt and confident that the dizzy spell will no longer return? Was there a moment that the dizzy spell returned when you first come off the JOH Regimen? Was there a period of trial and testing before finally shifting? 7. Presently, do you think there are other medicine and treatment that you might see potential for tinnitus? aside from Vinpocetine. Thank you John.
1. I've tried to increase the Lysine dosage to 4,000mg/day a few times and there is a light pinching in my affected ear (left ear), should I continue this dosage (even higher) or maintain the lower dose of 3,000mg/day? If the pinching continues, does not abate in, say, seven days, then go back to three 1000mg dosings a day; of course, each taken at least 20 minutes before eating, or at least 2 hrs after eating. 2. Is there any possibilty that the affected ear (left ear) might return to its normal hearing state given the early application of JOH Regimen? I understand that there is no certainty, but would like to hear your opinion on the possibility and also other JOH Regimen users might have encountered similar case. I'm hopefull that early detection/diagnosis and early application of JOH Regimen could help normalize the hearing on the affected ear. Yes, if the virus can be wiped out before the inflammation it causes destroys the ear’s hair cells, they will survive and hearing will be maintained. In my case, I had Meniere’s symptoms for some time (>1 year), so, by the time I worked up and experimented with the lysine — which eventually worked — my hair cells were destroyed and was permanently deaf in my left ear. 3. This next question might sound redundant covering dietary changes, I just need to ask your opinion about this, because this was the first dietary changes my ENT advised, to avoid salty foods and monosodium? Should I be concerned about this while I'm on JOH Regimen? There is no conflict with salt (sodium) intake and the regimen. ENTs virtually always first tell Meniere’s patients to drastically cut salt consumption, on the hypothesis that this will prevent fluid loading inside the middle ear and reduce the pressure. Seldom works, however. 4. How long did it took you to take the JOH Regimen in terms of months or years before shifting to Vitamin K, D and Multivitamin with Zinc? I'm just wondering about the time, effort, trial, testing and finalizing the JOH Regimen. I've read somewhere in this forum that you have to test each component of the JOH Regimen. When I got my first Meniere’s symptoms, the feeling of fullness in the ear, as a biologist I scrutinized the medical literature to learn the causes, etc. Then, episodes of mild vertigo hit, and I knew I had Meniere’s. My ENT, too, put me on the typical “LSD” treatment, low salt and diuretic. That made me urinate a lot, but, as with most, it did nothing to abate my Meniere’s symptoms. I had to try something else. I noticed that my vertigo was episodic, it would come and go — at intervals similar to the cold sores I frequently had. I knew those were caused by Herpes viruses. In literature searches I discovered that lysine can stop the replication of Herpes viruses and wipe them out. Hence, I experimented with lysine, and in a few weeks I could feel my ear pressure abating and vertigo attacks were milder and less frequent. Lysine, when properly taken (absent of food) was working. In the subsequent year I experimented with other supplements that might help dehydrate and drain excess fluids in the inner ear, such as the vinpocetine. Finally, all of that, in the original regimen, gave me complete relief from all Meniere’s symptoms except the deafness. To be safe, I continued for a few years, then incrementally cut back on regimen elements to see if they were still necessary. I also started to take 5000IU of vitamin D, along with 1000mg of magnesium malate 4x a day, and a vitamin K-2 capsule; the complete vitamin D regimen to support the immune system. I then went off the lysine and the rest of the regimen and have continued with the vitamin D regimen. Since then, a good number of years ago, Meniere’s has been fully abated for me. 5. What are the health indicators that guided you or made you decide to no longer take JOH Regimen and to shift to Vitamin K, D and Multivitamin with Zinc? I'm just asking this as my guide to monitor my progress on JOH Regimen. There was no “health indicator.” It just seemed that the regimen had fully wiped out my Meniere’s (no herpes virus anymore), so I experimented by going off it. Found that I didn’t need anymore. Quite convenient. 6. When you first decided to come off the JOH Regimen, was there a moment that you temporarily returned to JOH Regimen and then finally shifted to Vitamin K, D and Multivitamin with Zinc because you finally felt and confident that the dizzy spell will no longer return? Was there a moment that the dizzy spell returned when you first come off the JOH Regimen? Was there a period of trial and testing before finally shifting? No. No Meniere’s symptoms ever reappeared. Had they, I would have instantly gone back on the regimen. 7. Presently, do you think there are other medicine and treatment that you might see potential for tinnitus? aside from Vinpocetine. I’m not aware of any other treatment approaches for the tinnitus of Meniere’s. Niacin had been suggested by some, but it had effect for me. For me, tinnitus took many months for it to abate. But, in a year or so, the ear finally quieted. Haven’t had tinnitus since. I’m not supposed to say this, but in every regard my regimen cured my Meniere’s. Wish I could have started it at the earliest point, when it would have preserved the hearing in my left ear.
Brother, what i can recommand you for sure before all this regimen ( that for sure work for some), go and do an MRI with protocol Hydrops! There is a big chance that this will clarify the "Meniere journey". I will update my topic soon and you will see my journey that seems very similar with your. MRI with protocol Hydrops is a totally different animal then MRI cerebral or CT. Keep this regiment but keep searching aswell and YOU will find the solution! + an very very good ENT.
Hi JOH, First, thank you for everything you've done for me and so many people who are dealing with this! I would not have had ANY information about the relationship to the Herpes virus if it were not for this forum. I have a question about the virus. You said, "There was no “health indicator.” It just seemed that the regimen had fully wiped out my Meniere’s (no herpes virus anymore), so I experimented by going off it. Found that I didn’t need anymore. Quite convenient." I think it's wonderful that this has happened, but I thought that the virus was always around, just dormant, and you can never really get rid of it, just suppress it. Thanks for any information you have!
Well, yes. The lysine may not, probably does not totally eliminate the herpes virus from the body. But the lysine can reduce the size of the virus population to a level that it is no longer pathogenic; can't cause inflammation, etc. For me, when I attained this level viral suppression, I maintained (and maintain) it by my vitamin D supplementation. The vitamin D I take each day (>5000iu) supports the immune system's ability to control the herpes virus yet in my body. --John of Ohio
Hi John, (JOH) 1. I have already increased the dosage to 4,000mg/day for 7 days. I'll make an update after 7 days. After using JOH Regimen, I haven't got any major attack just the initial dizzy spell when I started with the JOH Regimen. Now its gone. My current main concern is the ear fullness in my left ear and tinnitus. I take Lysine without food either 20 minutes before meals or 2 hours after meals. Since my diagnosis its about 6 months now, and I'm about 3 months since I started JOH Regimen. 2. In your opinion what causes the damage to the ear's hair cells? the inflammation, ear fullness, the herpes virus or all of the above? I'm just asking this question to somewhat determine what stage I'm currently in. I'm concerned about the ear's hair cells. I have ear fullness for about 6 months now. 3. Thank you for clarifying the Low salt diet. This issue is definitely closed. 4. Thank you for explaining the process on how you started with the JOH Regimen. I was just wondering how it was like. I'm just glad and thankful that you have done it, a lot of people like me affected by Menieres have benefited from it and having an alternative treatment aside from my ENT. 5. & 6. Thank you for explaining the JOH Vitamin D Regimen. I've read a thread in this forum about it. I wondered about the shift. Currently, I'm many stages away from it. This will be the ultimate goal. 7. I agree with you about Niacin. Thank you John.
Thanks so much! I mentioned in my first post that my Vitamin D level was severely deficient (16) after my MD diagnosis. I started Vitamin D and the level went up to 33. I'm going to get tested again soon to see if it has improved further because my GP said 33 is still not high enough. Someone may have already posted this, but here's some Vitamin D information: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6023719/
------------------ Thank you for posting this vitamin D/Meniere's study. I was not aware of it. But it clearly describes and illustrates how adequate vitamin D can suppress Meniere's symptoms; by supporting the immune system's ability to suppress viruses --- my exact original contention; now supported by this paper. And, yes, 33 ng/ml is not enough vitamin D to adequately power the immune system's ability to suppress herpes virus infections. You need to attain a minimum level of vitamin D at 50 ng/ml. Fifty is nifty. Any level above 50, up to 100 ng/ml, is good. At a minimum, you should be taking 5000IUs of vitamin D supplement each day. But for vitamin D to fully support the immune system you will also need two vitamin D cofactors; sufficient magnesium and vitamin K-2. For magnesium, I take three 1000mg capsules of magnesium malate each day; along with a capsule of vitamin K-2. Since starting all of that some time ago, I've never had a cold or flu. My immune system works at full power. Nor, nor more Meniere's (after the regimen knocked it back). --John of Ohio
Hi. I couldn't locate an answer for my question, so I apologize if it's been discussed. Maybe I am unclear but if you don't have the herpes virus, does the regimen still work? My Menieres seems to be hereditary- my mom and her brother have it.
I have many dozens of reports from people who have tried my lysine-based regimen to treat their Meniere's disease. About 85% have claimed (to me in private emails) that they got significant or complete relief from their Meniere's symptoms. The lysine (when properly taken, without food, etc.) binds to and disrupts the function of an enzyme required for herpes virus replication. Without the enzyme the virus can't replicate and cause the inflammation in the inner ear that causes Meniere's symptoms. So, it's apparent that about 15% of Meniere's cases are caused by something else besides a herpes virus infection of the inner ear. Because in this case members of the family have or had the disease a genetic cause is suggested. But, it might merely be that the family members shared a genetic susceptibility to herpes virus infections. Understand, herpes viruses may be quietly present in the body for lengthy periods of time, causing no symptoms of any kind. These quiet, non-symptomatic infections are very difficult to detect. --John of Ohio
Thank you for your reply. Let’s just say in general - a person with Ménière’s doesn’t have the herpes virus. Would the regimen still work or is it specific to someone with the virus?
EVERYONE has herpesviridae in their body. Remember when you got chickenpox as a kid? That's in the herpesviridae genus. They are nefarious little sucker's because they can goncompletely dormant in the body, hiding in one of the most immune-privileged places your body has, the nerves. 95% for 95% of people they cause no issue, and the immune system keeps them in check. But as we age they can flare up again. The most typical example is shingles. But not all doctors know there are other maladies caused by this. ME/CFS is usually caused by an abortive EBV infection in the gut. Bels Palsy and vestibular neuronitis are caused by herpesviridae attacking one of the cranial nerves. Sudden sensorinureal hearing loss is similar. There is evidence that certain kinds of unexplained female infertility are caused by HHV6. Even multiple sclerosis there's evidence is caused in part by herpesviridae attacking nerves, and IIRC some MS patients get relief from antivirals In this case, Dr. Gacek's theory is that, like with vestibular neuronitis, herpesviridae is attacking the 7th cranial nerve (i may be wrong on the number). This gets exacerbated by comorbities, and all together these issues pile up and cause fluid in the inner ear. For example, there is some overlap with hypothyroidism, so get your TSH tested. Low thyroid means long term running inflammation- i.e. fluid. Dr. Gacek's theory has pretty strong evidence. Antivirals won't help for every single person with MM, but it helps a lot of them. The idea that something doesn't work if it doesn't work for <80% of patients is silly. Modern medicine is great at saving your life from catastrophe but TERRIBLE at managing chronic conditions, and this mentality is part of the reason why. The human body is insanely complex and every person is different, so not everyone will respond the same to medicine. Especially when you consider that chronic conditions usually are multivariate in cause. The best way to see if "your issue is the herpes virus" is to actually get a script for valacyclovir and see how you fair! Do NOT start a supplement and vitamin regimen without testing theories at their source first. Dr. Gacek charges only $90 for a first telemedicine consultation, and $75 for follow-ups. If valtrex is too expensive there is acyclovir. Also, get your TSH tested. Lots of menieres patients also have hypothyroidism that is a contributor. My issue may have been entirely hypothyroidism
John, Could carnosine be effective? Studies show it's good for nerve damage situations. And it makes me speedy like MSM does, but more... "brain" speedy than body.
MSM is mentioned in the regimen. Am I the only one who gets jacked up crazy nervous when he takes MSM? It's great when I'm very low energy but if I'm regular I get nervous to the level of like I just witnessed a mob murder, but like the feeling lasts for like 3-4 hours. Though I am prone to such nervousness with coffee and salt and certain supplements like that
Cut back or delete the MSM. It's not crucially required for the regime to work. The lysine is. --John of Ohio
