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Antiviral preference?

Discussion in 'Your Living Room' started by Fisherman42, Nov 14, 2020.

  1. EmilyP

    EmilyP Member

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    Hi and thank you for responding. What side effects? I have talked to both my Ear Doctor and GP and they both have said there are no side effects with long-term use of Acyclovir.
     
  2. Mindosa

    Mindosa Member

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    Acyclovir can have very toxic effects on the kidneys, especially when it is given in higher doses. Long-term use often results in resistance to the drug as well as kidney damage.
    Drug for rare disorder shows promise for treating herpes viruses | UIC Today

    You can find all side effects in the drug side effects list.
    I personally stopped taking it because I experienced some of them.
     
  3. EmilyP

    EmilyP Member

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    thanks, I have blood work done every year and we specifically check my kidneys. Right now I am all good. I'll ask my ear doc next week about it again and resistance possibilities. I'm still on the JOH regime and going to add the additional Vit. he recommended a few posts back. Right now all I am dealing with is tinnitus. Which has decreased to minimal but some days it comes back to moderate.
     
  4. Mindosa

    Mindosa Member

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    ENT doctors are not the experts in the viral field, I would suggest consulting it with the infectologist.
     
  5. EmilyP

    EmilyP Member

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    Thanks I will do that.
     
  6. Mindosa

    Mindosa Member

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    There are more aspects which are worth mentioning in case of AVs' side effects.

    Older adults may be more sensitive to the side effects of the drug, especially kidney problems (change in the amount of urine, back/side pain), dizziness, drowsiness, and mental/mood changes (such as confusion, hallucinations, loss of consciousness).

    Also it is known that both oral acyclovir (or valacyclovir) and NSAIDs have the potential to affect kidney function, and in rare instances these drugs may cause more severe renal conditions such as acute kidney injury.
    Data Mining of FDA Adverse Event Reporting System
    https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/bpb/41/2/41_b17-00547/_article
     
  7. Mindosa

    Mindosa Member

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  8. Mindosa

    Mindosa Member

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    Accidentally found this very interesting study:

    This clinical study showed that suppressive or preventive treatment with the herbal Gene-Eden-VIR/Novirin reduced the number and duration of outbreaks in oral herpes without any adverse effects. The study also showed that the herbal Gene-Eden-VIR/Novirin had better clinical effects than acyclovir and valacyclovir, the leading drugs in the category. Based on these results, we recommend using the herbal Gene-Eden-VIR/Novirin as preventive treatment for oral herpes and, specifically, as an alternative to the acyclovir and valacyclovir drugs.

    Clinical Trial of Herbal Treatment Gene-Eden-VIR/Novirin in Oral Herpes
     
  9. Nathan

    Nathan Well-Known Member

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    I began losing my hair when I noticed black circles under my eyes.

    My doctor claims they're just my nostrils.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Mindosa

    Mindosa Member

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  11. Mindosa

    Mindosa Member

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    Well this meta-analysis study give us some good statistic about AVs safety:

    Le Cleach et al tested the effectiveness and safety of the 3 oral antiviral drugs, acyclovir, famciclovir, and valacyclovir, using a meta-analysis of 26 clinical studies.
    They found that the number of withdrawals due to harms was mentioned in only 8 studies, that is, 31% of the studies.
    In total, the 4 studies reported 331 adverse events in 561 (59%) participants in the antiviral treatment groups.
    Clinical Trial of Herbal Treatment Gene-Eden-VIR/Novirin in Oral Herpes
     
  12. Mindosa

    Mindosa Member

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    Here is the producers website of these herbal antiviral products:
    Lilac Corp: Official Website

    Not much info in it. But I found in one study more info about what's inside of these bottles and how they act against the viruses.

    Gene-Eden-VIR/Novirin ingredients:

    Quercetin

    Quercetin is a flavonol with a variety of biological effects, including antioxidant, anti-inflammatory, and antiviral. It has anti-infective and anti-replicative effects on a number of viruses, including RNA viruses. Studies showed that micromolar doses of quercetin can inhibit betacoronavirus infectious activities in vitro. One study reported that quercetin blocked pseudotype SARS-CoV entry into host cells (EC50 = 83.2 μM). Two other studies observed that quercetin specifically inhibited the 2 SARS-CoV proteases, PLpro (IC50 = 8.6 μM21) and 3CLpro (IC50 = 52.7 μM,21 73 μM22), and the Middle Eastern Respiratory Syndrome protease 3CLpro (IC50 = 34.8 μM21). In addition, quercetin’s anti-inflammatory properties may have beneficial effects in respiratory viral infections, including CoV. Studies suggested that quercetin can modulate the cytokine release pattern associated with hyperinflammation and cytokine storm, while upregulating the proliferation of regulatory T helper cells.

    Green Tea

    Green tea is made of leaves from the plant Camellia sinensis in a process that allows the preservation of certain flavonols commonly known as catechins. Several papers suggested that catechins have broad antiviral effects against many viruses. With regard to beta coronaviruses, one of the main catechins in green tea is epigallocatechin gallate (EGCG). This catechin was found to induce mild inhibitory effects on SARS-CoV 3CLpro (IC50 = 73 μM) in vitro.

    Cinnamon

    Cinnamon extract is most commonly derived from the species Cinnamomum cassia. Studies demonstrated that the plant has inhibitory effects on RNA viral infections in vitro. Zhuang et al also showed that a cinnamon extract inhibited an infection with the wild type SARS-CoV in vitro (IC50 = 43 μM). The proposed possible mechanism was blocking cell entry via endocytosis.

    Licorice

    Licorice extract, derived from the root of Glycyrrhiza glabra, has broad antiviral and immunostimulating effects. In vitro and human studies showed that licorice stimulates the proliferation and activation of the human lymphocytes CD4+, CD8+, B cells, and NK cells. Reports from CoV patients indicate the involvement of this type of immune cells prior to the resolution of the disease, while overaccumulation of innate immunity cells, such as macrophages and neutrophils, at the site of infection, was associated with severe cases and death. Thus, licorice may promote early adaptive immunity-mediated clearance of the virus and prevent hyperinflammation. In addition, studies demonstrated a direct weak anti-infective activity of licorice’s main active ingredient, glycyrrhizin, on SARS-CoV in vitro.

    Selenium

    Selenium is a trace element involved in redox regulation. Its antioxidative effect is exerted through the incorporation as selenocysteine into a group of proteins called selenoproteins. Selenium deficiency increases the levels of reactive oxygen species and oxidative stress, which impairs the response of the immune system to viruses and increases the rate of mutation of RNA viruses. This impaired response may be manifested in several forms: decreased immune cells function, as a result of oxidative damage; decreased cell-mediated immunity; more severe and persistent inflammation of the lungs, as seen in influenza A virus (IAV) infection; and an imbalance in the proliferation of different T cell types, including T helper cells (Th1/Th2) ratio. The increase in viral rate of mutation coupled with the decrease in the immune response to the viral infection may increase virulence, as it increases the population size of quasispecies, and, as a result, gives rise to new more virulent strains. These new strains can become dominant and increase the pathogenicity of the infection. Harthill suggested that this mechanism, which has been observed with other RNA viruses in selenium-deficient mice models, also occurred in the SARS-CoV outbreak in 2002. It is interesting that the outbreak started in areas of low selenium soil in China, such as Wuhan city. It should be noted that excess selenium is also detrimental to health. Studies showed that supranutritional supplementation of selenium caused an imbalance in the proliferation profile of T cell types, and impaired immune response. Finally, studies showed that adequate levels of selenium supplementation to selenium-deficient patients increased the immune response to viral infections, and decreased the virulence of several viruses, in some cases to the point of complete prevention of the disease.
    SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class research journals

    There are a lot of references in this link above about those ingredients effectiveness against viruses.
    Maybe it is no side effects solution against viruses together with the lysine?
     
  13. June-

    June- Well-Known Member

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    Antivirals are very safe drugs for most people. People with kidney or liver issues should discuss with their physician before taking and it is important to drink enough water while taking them. They are far safer than many drugs such as prednisone and even diuretics that are prescribed routinely for meniere’s patients. As with any drug, it is best to discuss it with your family doctor who knows your history. I was reluctant at first but my famiky doctor assured me they had a good safety profile. They saved my hearing and my sanity and it was not necessary for me to take them long term. Three months was sufficient in my case.
     
  14. Mindosa

    Mindosa Member

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    For the very safe drugs you don't need prescription
     
  15. Jonas

    Jonas New Member

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  16. EkkoMusic

    EkkoMusic Member

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    I want to dig into this a bit. The 38.7% success rate is for patients who experienced an improvement in hearing.

    For a condition like Meniere's Disease, I think all we would ask for is a drug that stops the progression of symptoms. I usually wouldn't expect a drug today to be able to actually restore hearing, but the fact that Antivirals can even do that in ~39% of patients is magic.

    Per the study: "Hearing in subgroup I was not improved but maintained without significant change." To me, this suggests a potential cessation of the progression of hearing loss for the nine patients in subgroup I. I'm a little unclear from the study on the progression of hearing loss for the ten patients in subgroup II, if any, but I believe it is implied that they too did not experience a worsening of hearing (though potentially because their hearing was already so bad to begin with, and they had not much more to lose; i.e, their hearing loss had already naturally stabilized). However—and someone please correct me if I am wrong about this—no patients experienced a worsening of hearing while on antiviral therapy in this study.

    The explanation for why hearing did not improve on antivirals seems to be due to "damage to more than just OHC," and that "degeneration of IHC and/or spiral ganglion cell is likely present in these failures."

    As for vertigo:
    For the patients whose vertigo did not improve on antivirals, I suspect one of two reasons:
    1. Per the study, "although it is possible that virus resistance may be responsible for failure of the antiviral drug to be more effective in the control of vertigo in this last group of patients, the increased duration of MD may suggest another explanation. Increased fibroblast activity surrounding vestibular ganglion cells and obliteration of the synaptic cleft in both the auditory and vestibular sense organs may represent an increase in the blood-brain barrier for the antiviral drug to cross before reaching the virus-containing neuron."
    2. These patients had a non-viral cause of Meniere's Disease.
    In summary, here are my takeaways from the study.

    Hearing improved with antivirals in 12 out of 31 patients (39%)
    Hearing did not improve with antivirals in 19 out of 31 patients (61%)
    Hearing worsened with antivirals in 0 out of 31 paitents (0%)

    Vertigo improved with antivirals in 21 out of 28 patients (75%)
    Vertigo did not improve, or worsened, with antivirals in 7 out of 28 patients (25%)

    Thus, I believe the "AV success rate" (for vertigo control and symptom stabilization) does indeed appear to be higher than 39%, but depending on your concept of 'success' here. The success rate for hearing improvement alone seems to be dependant on how much damage is done to IHCs or spiral ganglion cells in addition to OHCs, hence why patients with a shorter duration of MD tend to have better hearing recovery when starting AVs.

    This is all based on my quick interpretation of the study after reading it once, and I would love for others to chime in with any corrections.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2021
  17. Pa Cowboy

    Pa Cowboy Member

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    My experience showed an almost complete reduction in ear fullness after 3 days, then my hearing slowly improved and is now back to pre-meniers levels. So the antiviral doesn't directly improve hearing but because the fullness went away my hearing improved.
     
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  18. maireann

    maireann New Member

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    Was going to add these to my monolaurin when it arrives

    Does this look adequate?

    upload_2021-10-6_14-52-29.png
     
  19. MightyResilience

    MightyResilience New Member

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    Just throwing this out there — I've used prescription antivirals all 2023, yielding both positive and negative outcomes. Encouraged by the improvements I experienced while on Paxlovid recently, I was inclined to believe that a viral factor was my root cause. However, delving into various Meniere’s forums exposed an enlightening detail a few days ago: the generic valacyclovir I had been taking, supplied by the manufacturer Mylan, proved ineffective for numerous Meniere’s patients. I had been taking it for MONTHS. I made the switch to a different generic manufacturer yesterday, and my distorted hearing and roaring tinnitus are already better. Check the manufacturer and stay away from Mylan!
     
  20. EAOfficial

    EAOfficial Member

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