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Doctor hasn't prescribed antivirals...

Discussion in 'Your Living Room' started by Zach Maxwell, Sep 30, 2019.

  1. Zach Maxwell

    Zach Maxwell New Member

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    Sep 30, 2019
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    Hey everyone, I just discovered this page today, and have been reading obsessively for the past couple hours. One thing that keeps popping up is the use of antivirals. This has left me questioning why this treatment option was never prescribed or even suggested by my ENT.

    I have been on a low salt diet, Maxzide, and most recently an intratympanic steroid injection in the offending ear. I haven't had a major vertigo attack since the shot but the tinnitus has been just as bad if not worse.

    Is antiviral therapy usually a standard treatment for Meniere's? Should I ask my doctor why he hasn't suggested it?
     
  2. Pa Cowboy

    Pa Cowboy New Member

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    When I told the Doc how antivirals helped me he replied, "Huh, never heard of that before."
    It's not mainstream doctoring, you'll only read about it on here.
     
  3. Onedayatatime

    Onedayatatime Active Member

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    My GP prescribed them for me when my ENT would not. I dumped the ENT after that and found a new one. AV's did not help me. 0%.
     
  4. Zach Maxwell

    Zach Maxwell New Member

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    Thanks, guys. This is good information to know. Pa Cowboy, do you take a course of antivirals or does it become a daily medication?
     
  5. Pa Cowboy

    Pa Cowboy New Member

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    Since March I've been taking 3 Valtrex, 1000mg each, spread out during the day.
     
  6. Zach Maxwell

    Zach Maxwell New Member

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    That seems like a pretty high dose. Do they plan on tapering it off after a certain amount of time? How much has it improved your symptoms?
     
  7. Pa Cowboy

    Pa Cowboy New Member

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    Got the script from the Family doc, he's good with whatever I wanna do. I've been much better, no more fullness in the bad ear, hearing has improved, still get dizzy spells but no more crawling to the bathroom while pushing the puke bucket across the floor.
    Course this improvement could just be the way I'm rolling right now but I'm to scared to stop the antivirals!
     
  8. Zach Maxwell

    Zach Maxwell New Member

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    Sep 30, 2019
    Nashville, TN
    It's crazy how much I can relate to the crawling with a bucket thing.
     
  9. JonBubo

    JonBubo Member

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    Apr 11, 2019
    Onedayatatime, I would like to know what antivirals you were on and in what amounts?
     
  10. Onedayatatime

    Onedayatatime Active Member

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    valacyclovir 3g per day for 3 months.
     
  11. JonBubo

    JonBubo Member

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    Apr 11, 2019
    Thats the reason it didnt work. Realize, about a third of the people who take an HSV specific vala or acyclovir will get little to no relief. It is possible your MD is caused by one or more NON HSV viruses or perhaps EBV or HPV or Zoster. That is why a broad based antiviral program is a must to hit the right viruses and pathogens. That antiviral does nothing for candida, mold, lyme if you have it. This mean you take 3 grams of lysine per day to rob the viral fuel, 1 - 3 grams of Vitamin C and monolaurin or olive leaf starting on a small dose and working upwards til you clear whatever it can from your body. Not an uncommon result from just taking valacylovir and remember it only suppresses a certain virus...doesn't kill anything.
     
  12. Onedayatatime

    Onedayatatime Active Member

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    I gave up the 3g of Lysine a few months ago for the very reason that not all MM is caused by a virus. My progression has remained constant throughout the treatment of JOH and AV's. My condition occurred in flare cycles which started out every 3 months with the frequency of flares worsening to every 3 weeks. My treatment trials had to run for at least 3 months to have a factual evaluation. A treatment plan needs to provide evidence of real success or failure.

    In my own 4 year journey, I am at the point my Doc thinks my vertigo is caused by MAV and there is successful physical evidence to support his treatment plan. At this point, all this other stuff is just talk to me because it all failed.

    A suffering person can come to this site to get ideas to try and support to "go for it". That's about it. The reason I say this is because the causal tree for MM type symptoms is large. What works for one person may not work for anyone else. It's critical to maintain a positive perspective to evaluate your symptoms, identify patterns and constantly search for treatment plans. But when those plans fail, it's time to move on. Otherwise, you end up in a cycle of doing the same things, the same treatments that continue to fail. And you tell yourself, well maybe it helps a little. I call that failure.

    I don't regret JOH and AV's as they were no brainers to try. It's not like surgery. I still maintain most of the JOH regimen for general health. I maintain the LOSO regimen for the same reason. I have found the MAV diet to have refocused me on general health strategies more than when I hoped and prayed JOH or AV's would be my savior. Losing 10 pounds and cutting junk out of my diet not only supports my current treatment protocol, it also helps me feel better in general.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is for folks to not fall for the trap of thinking MM as a beast that is narrow in initiators. It's more like a puzzle. A puzzle that takes time and patience to put the pieces together. Every individual has a different history that changes the causal map. One thing for sure, we need to take control of the journey as nobody else cares enough to do it for us. I also suggest folks not to plan on a quick fix.

    OK, down from my soapbox.
     
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  13. JonBubo

    JonBubo Member

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    I appreciate your journey and experience you have as many others have seen alot. Since JOH changed his antiviral routine many times...which antivirals other than lysine were you taking in what amounts? Many dont know he was using and recommending olive leaf and monolaurin as part of his regimen in his final posting years. Or are you referring to the previous iteration that involved pharma acyclovir or valacyclovir but not the natural antivirals? Or the previous and original version to that with lysine only and beta glucans, ginkgo and a few other things? I notice you dont mention OLE and monolaurin but mention AV's so maybe that means valacyclovir?

    About a third fail with that taken alone due to its narrow HSV focus...basically its a dart throw depending on the viruses one has. If EBV or HPV or Zoster not much success. But thats a clue ....follow it!
    Words can be tricky and I have been guilty of using casual parlance previously...one person says 'cause' and it can mean a contributing factor...another uses cause in the technical sense and it means the condition would not exist without it. So with respect...I would like to know what other causes exist for menieres? This claim that there are many causes is not scientifically supported that I know of but I like to learn. In a rare case I have heard (not documented) that a trauma to the endolyphatic area can cause menieres like symtpoms although not classified as menieres. I think you may be a bit confused on MAV vs Menieres. MAV is actually under the same umbrella as menieres and is usually coincidal with 1 or more conditions... even EBV.

    I am glad you have taken charge of your treatment. Many do not and do whatever their ENT or GP Dr. tells them and never do ANY research.
    Certainly cant argue with diet being a big part of any health condition. Glad you found success.
    As for lysine...and not noticing relief your are not alone when taken alone. But its ability to inhibit arginine the fuel of viruses is well documented. Certainly though, leaning on lysine alone is not recommended as its about 10% of the effect needed but heck in menieres land that ain't bad. The trick is to find your other pathogens and hit the often many specific viruses in you. That's difficult to know without testing and even some trial and error.

    Furthermore, if one has lyme, mold, or candida overgrowth it can offer profound relief if found and treated. It is certainly not all about 1 virus as I repeat often. Its usually multiple and the viral load and locations can vary intensity of symptoms person to person greatly. So no one is saying it's only one thing...far from it. The point is to hit ANY viruses with multiple items never just one or a pharma alone AND find and hit the other pathogenic infections and boost the immune system through diet etc. Love to know your feedback on the questions I asked. Thanks.
     
  14. Nicole76

    Nicole76 New Member

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    Sep 24, 2019
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    Hi Jon,

    I've been taking lysine and vitamin c since mid July. Started monolaurin on September 4th and had worked my way up to half a scoop 3x/day but my tinnitus was getting worse and I developed hyperacusis so four days ago I stopped the monolaurin. Hyperacusis continues to get worse daily with today being the absolute worst. I have not been overprotecting my ears so this is very confusing to me. Not sure if monolaurin was the cause of all this or what is happening, but I'm really scared. I'm sure it goes without saying in this group, but you never realize how important your ears are until they start malfunctioning.

    I have reactivated EBV which I suspect is the cause of my ear issues. My tinnitus was previously quite soft and non reactive and totally changed the past few months around the time of my diagnosis.

    I recently purchased olive leaf so I guess I can use that instead of the monolaurin? My doctor also said I could go on valtrex if I wanted but I'm afraid it might spike my tinnitus or cause more hearing loss. Prescription drugs in general scare me now. Would love some advice. Thanks!
     
  15. Blakeh

    Blakeh Member

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    Aug 20, 2016
    Hello Jonbubo, I can’t find JOH recommending olive leaf and monolaurin as part of his regimen in his final posting years, can you please point me to this? I definitely interesting in incorporating it. Thanks!
     
  16. JonBubo

    JonBubo Member

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    Apr 11, 2019
    Sure.
    You may need to open up forums and then hit search forums. I just did a search for 'John of Ohio, olive leaf' and got this:
    "No. Take them both. OLE can work by itself, of course; needs no other adjunctive substance. But, together, valacyclovir and OLE complicate herpes virus replication in two, diverse ways.

    Let us know how this combined therapy works.

    --John of Ohio"

    John and I conversed on both subjects/items as he was always gracious when some of us had a question. Interestingly, he is one of a small percentage of the population that actually had an allergic reaction to coconut so he personally focused on olive leaf although he noticed, as many did, its benefits.
     
  17. Pa Cowboy

    Pa Cowboy New Member

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    Mar 17, 2019
    Is it ok to take an AV, Lysine and OLE at the same time??
     
  18. JonBubo

    JonBubo Member

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    If by AV you mean the pharma, and not another natural then yes, it's a much more successful approach. You are hitting the viruses and some pathogens from multiple angles instead of just trying to suppress HSV with the pharma.
     
  19. Pa Cowboy

    Pa Cowboy New Member

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    Mar 17, 2019
    Thanks Jon
     
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  20. taledo

    taledo New Member

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    Oct 30, 2019
    ENT told me today that we are going to start the intratympanic injections on 11/20. Can anyone who has had it done tell me if it hurts?
    My mind shut off as soon as he said needle into ear!
     

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