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First time poster, long time sufferer.

Discussion in 'Your Living Room' started by BobNY, Sep 27, 2019.

  1. BobNY

    BobNY New Member

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    Hi everyone. Just found the forums and wanted to say Hello. I was just diagnosed with Meniere’s even though I have suffered with this very badly for about 7 years and occasionally on and off for about 20 years. Finally found a doctor who had a clue and figured out what it was. Although since they don’t have a cure, that does not help a lot, but gives a little relief just knowing the reason.

    I was hoping to find out or gauge the level of my symptoms. Doctors can’t possibly understand how bad this problem gest when an “attack” occurs. I also got BPPV Vertigo in my left year about 6 years ago which is a separate issue, and they thought Meniere’s was just part of the Vertigo. But it’s not. I was lucky enough to get both. :) BPPV can be fixed with the Epley Maneuver. Not fun but works.

    My Meniere’s has gotten worse and worse over the years. From no problem, to little foggy/dizzy/panicky/aura type feelings on and off all day to full blown attack. At the worst, I can spend 8-12 hours on the bathroom floor by the toilet, wife bringing me ice packs and bowls of ice water that I dump on myself to cool down and make myself so cold I shiver uncontrollable as it’s the only things that helps in the slightest. I literally can barely move (unless needing to stick head in toilet if you know what I mean) and honestly, I am just praying for death over and over again.
    When that ends, it takes 24-48 hours to recover fully before I can get back to work.

    Then of course there are the attacks that just mean hours or even a couple days of feeling that aura or feeling like a full-blown attack like that is ABOUT to come on, using ice packs, going in ice cold shower, trying to avoid a full-blown attack. The stress and anxiety of that is almost as bad as the full-blown attack.

    Anyway, I’m sure I am talking to people here who understand. I am going to start reading messages, I was just wondering if this is common that other people experience or is mine, like I suspect, the upper limits of how bad this can get? Of course, I have all the normal, turn the head to quickly, bend over, watch something on TV that spins, all make me feel lousy for a few seconds to a few minutes stuff as well.

    Well, Hello! Happy to share my experience and hope to learn from everyone here.

    Thanks,
    Bob.
     
  2. Jimii

    Jimii Member

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    Bob,

    Welcome to the forum.
    Never heard of the ice treatment, but if it works at least it's cheap.
    I sure hope you have reached the upper limit. 8-12 hours sounds bad!
    How is your hearing? How old are you?
    I went 18 years self diagnosed based on family history and all symptoms, except the big vertigo attacks.
    Well, the vertigo attacks finally came this year. I am largely OK between attacks (three so far).
    What have you tried medically, and did anything work?

    I currently take nothing for Meniere's except Meclizine as needed.
    I may try Serc.

    Jim
     
  3. BobNY

    BobNY New Member

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    Hi Jim,
    I'm 47 and hearing is perfect. no loss, no ringing. Its the dizzy/vertigo type issues. I would say the "aura" as i have heard some describe it is the worst problem. Meniere's does not give me vertigo like BBPV does, where the room spins, its this overall horrible feeling that i dont know how else to describe. The Ice is in no way a treatment. I get to the point on the floor like about to pass out, but never do, just in that state for hours and hours feeling like death, The ice is the only thing that gives maybe a 10% relief. My theory is

    Just tried diuretics medication for first time, since just diagnosed and that brought on the problem, took meds for 2 days, suffered horribly for 3 days. done with that option. Sudafed helps a little as a its definitely worse when the Barometric Pressure is higher. No one has ever suggested anything else that could help. Tried all the motion sickness bands, pills, etc. Meklazine is joke for me. Was given meds they give to chemo patients for nausea, does nothing. Was reading here how B5 and B6 have helped some people and plan to try that...TODAY. :)

    Was on a diabetic medication for years that was causing those bad attacks to happen every couple of weeks, once i suspected that was making this worse, i stopped that med and the really bad attacks was reduced to ever couple of months. but this is an all day every day problem for me.

    Hoping to learn as much as i can from everyone here and hope sharing my experiences might help someone too.
    Thanks!
     
  4. BobNY

    BobNY New Member

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    A bit more information, a anti-histomine/anti-serotonin med called CYPROHEPTADINE taken at max does of 16mg a day, actually reduced my problem 80% for 3 months. But that type of med is something that you body adapts too so it eventually stopped working. I am going for round of allergy tests soon. The idea of not taking sudafed as needed for 5 days before allergy tests scares me though as symptoms will be worse but cant have that in you for the tests. But wanted to let others know about that medication.

    I have also done the low sodium, no alcohol, no caffeine (almost) for 6 weeks now with no change at all from that. Im diabetic so things like deli meats which are low/no carb but very high sodium was a staple in my diet, now its much harder, but went probably from 5000mg sodium a day to 1000-1500mg/day and zero change in how i feel.

    I'm guessing that my full blown attacks that put me on the floor for half a day are when the Endolymph sack actually ruptures into the Vestibular membrane in the inner ear, and that is the time it takes for it to start to heal and the fluids to return to normal. Just a guess but seems to make sense.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2019
  5. jkc

    jkc Member

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    Bob,
    Not sure what kind of Dr you have seen but you should really see a Neurotologist. As for diuretics I could not tolerate any of them until my Dr gave me Diamox . Its for altitude sickness but also a diuretic and can help with migraine.Good Luck
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. BobNY

    BobNY New Member

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    The specialist i am seeing who diagnosed it as Menieres with an ECoG test is an ENT who specialists in balance issues. He is an Otologist which i know goes hand in hand with a Neurotologist although a little different. I dont have migraines either. For me its all about the dizzy / lightheaded / nausea / horrible feeling stuff.
     
  7. Clare

    Clare Active Member

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    Welcome, Bob. We're all a little different, but the symptoms you've described don't quite follow the classic Meniere's pattern I'm familiar with. I hope you won't rule out other (or, sadly, additional) diagnoses. The classic presentation includes 4 symptoms -- vertigo, fluctuating progressive hearing loss particularly in the lower frequencies, tinnitus, and a feeling of fullness in the ear. Vertigo (full-on room spinning) episodes come randomly and more frequently as the condition progresses, but there may also be remissions for very long periods of time. Many people seem to find symptoms exacerbated by stress (physical or emotional) and/or fluid buildup from too much sodium intake. For others, sodium intake seems to make no difference, and there is no definitive scientific conclusion. Meniere's vertigo attacks typically last longer than 20 minutes and up to 6 hours or more. Attacks of shorter duration can be indicators of alternate conditions. As part of the diagnostic process, an MRI is usually ordered to rule out other potential causes of vertigo.

    I haven't heard much about an "aura" feeling with Meniere's; perhaps that could be associated more with MAV (migraine associated vertigo), which is often a Meniere's look-alike. Migraine is not necessarily associated with headaches. An otologist probably wouldn't diagnose migraine, but a neurotologist or neurologist would. An otologist specializes in the middle ear; a neurotologist in the inner ear and its interaction with the brain. Since Meniere's symptoms are caused by hair cells in the inner ear giving faulty signals to the brain, most of us find that neurotologists are most knowledgeable about diagnosis and treatment.

    Check out Dr. Hains' website for much more information about Meniere's and other dizziness conditions:
    Dizziness-and-balance.com: Disorder index
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
  8. Bonlyn

    Bonlyn Active Member

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    Hi Bob and welcome.

    Sorry you have to go through all of this too. I can empathize as I came out of remission 5 months ago and started having 12 hour vertigo attacks every three days. Believe it or not I was told by my doctor I now have MAV...migraine associated vertigo in addition to menieres.

    You do not have to have a traditional headache to have MAV...some migraine manifests in vertigo, or sinus pain or vomiting. If you have looked over the forum you may have read about Heal Your Headache by David Buchholz. If you have not read it, you should and can get a copy off of Amazon. Also ice pack treatment is common for migraine disorder.

    Regardless, learning to control your triggers for attacks is very important. Sometimes food or environmental allergens trigger. When I first got diagnosed with menieres, I totally cut gluten out and I went into remission for a year.

    I am also diabetic so understand how the blood sugar thing makes things more complicated with meds.

    Since I am now on a total anti- inflammatory diet, it has helped my blood sugar levels and have gone down from 2000 mg of metformin to 500 mg a day. Actually cutting the gluten helped the most with menieres and diabetes. Weird because I eat just as much brown rice bread as I did wheat bread and a1c is much better.

    Since I have been having such debilitating attacks, it is not as difficult to go on such a strict diet. 12 hour attack vs lasagna or chocolate cookie.

    Both diabetes and menieres can be deemed auto- immune disorders, so it is good to try to find out what is setting it off.

    For menieres, for some people it is a viral situation and the JOH regime or anti vitals work. The best med that worked for my menieres, especially the ear pressure, was betahistine...16 mg 3x a day.

    Hope something on the forum helps you out. There is an excellent database to search. Just remember try to do only one treatment regiment at a time, so you know what is and is not working. Best to you. Bonnie
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  9. BobNY

    BobNY New Member

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    Thanks for the comments and suggestions. Yes, of course i am still learning more about Menieres and understand I have only some of the symptoms which i have read is normal. I dont have the hearing related issues. Its the mainly balance and by aura i mean that foggy feeling. But its foggy to the extreme of nausea, unable to focus until i am literally sick on the floor. The idea that when the pressure is off balance inside, feeling overall sick and horrible, and when the Endolymph sack actually ruptures into the Vestibular membrane is when i get sick to my stomach for usually half a day or more until it slowly starts regulating back to normal does explain my issues, but of course who knows if it is the true cause.
    But i am open to any options and as always, looking to figure it all out.
    Unfortunately there are no "triggers" for me. All these years, no pattern, nothing specific that causes it. I can feel fine, then feel it coming on in my head, pressure, foggyness, light headed, dizzy, then it might just fade away or it might get worse and worse. Of course when it starts, panic sets in know what "might" happen and that makes everything much worse. When the barometric pressure is high (above 1015mb) I am usually much worse. low press, I usually feel better.
    I am trying the B5/6 thing as its an easy option at the moment.
    Thanks everyone!
     
  10. Bonlyn

    Bonlyn Active Member

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    Hope the B5 B6 route works for you.

    But if not I would still get the Buchholz book. You may be having a hard time because you are suffering from both.

    The reason I say maybe MAV, you mention you have had this for over 7 years but do not have any hearing loss. Usually with mm you have some.

    Some of the other things you mention that are typical MAV are the AURA, the fact you get relief from ice packs, building a resistance to rescue meds like sudafed. The attacks themselves , vertigo and vomiting. And the stages of your attacks...generally there are 4 stages of migraine disorder. You seem to mention the pre attack.

    Stage 3. the actual attack with vertigo, then stage 4 which for me lasts a day...I call it the vertigo hangover.

    Barometric pressure is the worst trigger for my MAV attacks...humidity and rain.

    Not all triggers are food but....In regards to food triggers, I have been told you can eat something but it may not trigger for two or three days after. That is why they recommend taking all the triggers out and then re introduce slowly.

    Stress is a huge MAV trigger. The stress when I have a mm attack can put me in a MAV attack.

    Just curious why do you feel it is not MAV?

    It is such a tricky and debilitating disorder. We all have to figure out what is the right path. Best wishes trying out the B5 B6. It has worked for some.
     
  11. BobNY

    BobNY New Member

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    Its not that i feel its not MAV, that was not suggested to me as a possible cause. Once the test came back positive for Menieres, the diuretics were given, took it twice which brought on an attack, worst in 9 months. That was just a week ago. I have to go back now to tell the doctor that is the end for that medication for me. :)

    My diet has changed at times because of diabetes so i dont see anything in it that has been so consistent that it would be food related. I have tried the gluten free, caffeine free, dairy free, etc. It has never changed this issue.

    I was ok yesturday and half of today. a few hours ago i felt the aura feeling in my head, check the barometric pressure and it was at 1017 (yesturday was 1006). Its like i can detect it with my head. so now my head is feeling solid, heavy and its bringing on that feeling. And Yes, just writing this and reading your post is making me feel much worse with anxiety. I know that problem well.

    Stress is something I have in excess. Self employed and work 60+ hours a week. So I know that is affecting it too somehow. and of course when i feel so bad i cant possibly work, that just makes me more stressed.

    I will certainly speak to the doctor about MAV but the reason i didn't go right for that as an option is i never have migraines even though they say "you may not always have". Also i have had BPPV so i know what true vertigo with nystagmus is and i dont get it with this issue. So its all very hard to figure out and completly debilitating in life.

    Thanks!!!
     
  12. Bonlyn

    Bonlyn Active Member

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    A lot of ENT doctors are not really familiar with Menieres or MAV treatment. I was fortunate that the ENT I saw told me flat out," I think you have menieres but I want you to go to the specialist here..an otolaryngologist. " since the only real tests for menieres is your history and some balance and hearing tests.

    Not sure what part of NY you are from, but if it is near White Plains I would recommend him to discern if you have menieres. He recently said I have MAV too, but because of the diabetes complication he wanted me to see a neurologist for medication.

    In regards to MAV, unfortunately it seems the doctors I would like to see are too far away and I can not see myself flying in my condition. The migraine center in NYC...in August they were giving appointments in April 2020.

    That is why the Buchholz book and members on this forum were so helpful. It was great info to be prepared with, as I wait to see a general neurologist in October.

    Wish I could say something to help with the stress, but I think you getting as much info as you can will at least help you take the most efficient route to relieve your symptoms.

    If it is migraine related the best starting potion is 400 mg of B2 (RIBOFLAVIN) 600 mg magnesium glycinate and 200 mg of COQ10 a day. I went into remission for a year with that potion, but it took a month to kick in. There are pills like Migrelief you can off Amazon that is a combo pill.

    I would not recommend starting that until you try your B5 B6 combo.

    Also sniffing certain essential oils can be calming during stress. For me peppermint oil is great, though I know a lot of people prefer lavender.

    Wishing you peace as you find the right remedy for you.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Jimii

    Jimii Member

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    Bob,
    What test was this?

    Insist on an MRI if you have not had one. My Dr. told me it is the standard of care in diagnosing Meniere's. One must rule out everything else.
    I couldn't get a diagnosis for 18 years because I was missing one of the four symptoms.

    Jim
     
  14. BobNY

    BobNY New Member

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    Bonlyn,
    An ECoG test along with ENG/VNG seems to be the main tests for Menieres as i understand it. ECog came back as positive on the right side.
    My ENT is an Otologist and specializes in balance / inner ear issues.
    I am in the Hudson Valley area so not far from White planes at all. At this point this doctor has been the most helpful so until he gives me a reason, or i feel he is stumped i would not switch, but its always an option when he is not getting me anywhere.

    I have had multiple CT scans, rules out tumors, etc. and shows other issues like how the sinuses look, clogged, etc.
    Just for the record, and not to sound unappreciative (I am here to share, learn and hear all the ideas and options) but its not like this all just happened in the last week. I have been dealing with all this for almost 7 years. Its only recently that someone said the word "Meniere's" as what they think the cause it. I have been through many tests, trials of not eating this or not eating that. etc. I have completly read up on Meniere's and understand what it is. Just still trying to see IF they are right or not. :)
    Thanks for all the thoughts, suggestions and information!
    Its nice to hear all the people who have had some relief here from one solution or another. :)
     
  15. Bonlyn

    Bonlyn Active Member

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    Oh so sorry if I came off too gangbuster :oops:.

    The down side of online forums you are just reading the text, so sometimes hard to discern the emotions behind the text. Does the person want information, confirmation, empathy, to lament or just encouragement and validation.

    Glad you have a doctor that has been helpful and supportive. That means a lot. If you have read enough of the forum posts, that is not always the case. Best to you. Bonnie:)
     
  16. BobNY

    BobNY New Member

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    No! not at all. :)
    Thats the downside of all written (typed) conversation. Emoji's are important to express emotion. I just wanted to say that i am familiar with all the basics, like what Meniere's is, etc. so save people time/effort. I greatly appreciate all the information and opinions. I take it all in. :)

    Day 2 of the B5/6, so waiting to see if that helps. I absolutely feel stress brings the attacks on more, but there are times that its just so bad from sinus pressure and whatever else that nothing can stop it, no level of de-stressing prevents a full blown attack. And spending 12 hours on the bathroom floor next to the toilet with ice packs and wishing to just either pass out or die is bad beyond any words can describe. So any little bit i (we) learn that might find a solution or easy all out individual problems is great.
    Thanks!
     
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  17. Onedayatatime

    Onedayatatime Active Member

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    My doc prescribed me Ondansetron as a rescue med that has ended the vomiting during my vertigo attacks. It is a fast acting micro tab. I take it when I'm going off the rails. Downside is you gotta carry it with you.
     
  18. BobNY

    BobNY New Member

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    I have the Ondansetron too, when i feel horrible though, it does nothing for me. I carry it in my emergency bag with all the other meds that "might" help a little when things get back. I try to never leave home without it. Ain't life fun living like this ? ;)
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  19. AnneT

    AnneT Well-Known Member

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    I’ve mentioned this in other threads so please excuse me if this is redundant! Even ondansetron wouldn’t always prevent puking during my bad attacks... but sniffing rubbing alcohol always did (in combination with Ativan and gravol or meclizine). I kept a couple of bottles and cotton swabs handy in the house, and carried the little alcohol swab packs in my purse. Crazy, but it is more effective and waaay cheaper.

    In the end, my puke reflex seemed to be triggered worse by just the taste of ondansetron. Pavlov!
     
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