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I thought the antivirals were helping me..

Discussion in 'Your Living Room' started by Dnrpn, Dec 4, 2019.

  1. Dnrpn

    Dnrpn Member

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    I was recently thinking about posting my success story with valtrex until everything came back!! I don’t know what to think now and am totally crushed. I am scheduled to do a gradual return to work on dec 16th, but this was based on 11 weeks of great improvement that is no longer.

    I initially was having episodes of roaring left sided tinnitus, fullness, pressure, foggy head, head vibrating, decreased hearing in low range. Some lightheadedness. These episodes were present more often than not. Almost always. Serc didn’t work. No identifiable triggers.
    I started 3000 valtrex in May after discovering this forum. Things got worse for a month or so, then eased. I decreased to 2000 in July. Things weren’t perfect but it was less frequent and less intense. Very exciting. I decreased to 1000 at the end of August. One week later my symptoms came back like crazy. I immediately went back up to 2000, and within ten days I was ok.
    I had almost 11 weeks from that point on of almost no symptoms!! life! Some rumbling and ringing and off feeling but that’s it. I was certain the valtrex was responsible.

    then last Friday I woke in the morning to everything back strong for 2 days. I’m still having symptoms, a bit less, but today even seemed to increase compared to last 2 days. This is day 6 :(

    Has anyone’s experience been like this? Was it just a coincidence? My fear is that I’m back to my usual hell of almost always having symptoms and I can’t work. I’m still taking 2000 valtrex.
    Thanks so much for your time.
     
  2. Gardengal

    Gardengal Member

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    I have relapses on avs. Usually it means your system is be weaken by something else, allowing virus to flare up. Go back to 3000mg until you feel better. Did your pharmacy change brands of your medication? Hang in there. Sorry about your set back.
     
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  3. Dnrpn

    Dnrpn Member

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    Thank you for your reply. I get name brand Valtrex so it shouldn’t be a problem. I’ll increase to 3000. I really want to go back to work! It’s been 2.5 years! how often do you get flares and how long do they last?
     
  4. Gardengal

    Gardengal Member

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    Once or twice a year. They usually last one week. They are never as bad as when I wasn’t on av. I have been pregnant 3x while on av and I have had 6 weeks long flares each time. I think pregnancy is an immune suppressor so I think maybe that’s why? You’ll have to be the judge of what happens with you. I keep a log. I have for 4 years. I record the bad days. I can look back and try to see what was going on, how long the flares lasted, what times of year they happened, etc. It’s helpful and it encourages me to see that the bad times don’t last forever.
     
  5. Clare

    Clare Active Member

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    Meniere's is pretty random, but the attacks generally increase in frequency, in starts and fits, the longer you have it. But, as some recent posts have noted, there can be environmental factors like barometric pressure that can play a role. And stress, too. Some people say the vertigo will "burn out" over time, but that wasn't my experience. With any treatment, it's difficult to make a cause-effect relationship since the attacks are so random. I found it helpful to accept that I won't be able to control it, won't know the cause, and just have to deal with it on a day-to-day basis, relishing any good time I got. Eventually I had to change careers to something I could do from home. Then even working from home became impossible. When the attacks progressed in frequency to the point of life not worth living, a labyrinthectomy restored me and connected me with the world around me once again. Life is so much better now.
     
  6. Blakeh

    Blakeh Member

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    Hi Dnrpn,

    It sounds like the anti virals were working but the dosage was lowered. With the anti viral approach that many of us take, we are not getting rid of the virus we are suppressing it. The longer you can stay on 3000 mg the better. For me , I stay on 3000mg I do not taper, plus I take JOH regimen. I do not see a benefit to tapering the dosage. I get blood work once a year, and the doctors have not found anything.

    I hope you feel better soon.

    Blake
     
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  7. JonBubo

    JonBubo Member

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    Dnrpn,

    As I have written about on this site before, to increase success from a pharma only approach which may only suppress replication of one family (HSV) of viruses, consider broadening your approach with more tools. Namely, the addition of lysine, C a natural antiviral and a focus on inflammation.

    On Lysine: By choking off one of the main supplies of food for viruses (arginine....there is also sugar) we can attack from another angle. And taking large amounts like 3 grams (or even 4 Grams or more for short flare up periods) over long periods of time have shown to be safe. I have done so myself.

    Vitamin C is not just another vitamin it is antiviral and anti inflammatory. The body can use high amounts of this all the way up to 25 - 50 grams in one IV. we usually try a lower amount and gradually raise to avoid any bowel softening, which is the point at which the body says 'I have had enough I cant benefit anymore' ( the same applies to magnesium). Everyone is different but many can tolerate tens of grams far above the RDA or any recommended amount we talk about here. 1-3 grams or as much as you can per day.

    Add to that another key antiviral (Olive leaf or monolaurin or oregano oil gel caps).
    You can actually kill viral cells AND suppress them. This also diversifies the program. That is key because pathogens (viruses, candid a et al) can develop bio films against one particular substance rather easily. This means that a previous success with valtrex or acyclovir may wane and lead to a relapse in attacks symptoms due to bio film resistance. At times, for a few weeks to a month antivirals of any kind, pharma or otherwise may cause a reactivation of a virus from a dormant state. This is not to be feared but understood and addressed with a strong consistent long term effort.

    Consider adding a low amount at first of one of the following:

    Olive leaf OR monolaurin OR oregano oil. Gently raising up dosage from a 1 pill or single dose start to avoid too much herxheimer effect. Wise to NOT try 2 at once as you want to control die off and know which substance it comes from. The combination of those WITH your pharma will do more than what you had and give you a much better attack force and chance at success. The regimen I recommend takes somewhat from JOH (which I first started on and credit with my awareness and recovery from attacks) is here:

    • Lysine: 4 grams for a flare up short term (2 weeks or less) and then 3 grams a day throughout not all at once. 1 gram pills are available to cut down on pill count.
    • Vitamin C 1-3 grams of vitamin C (or as much as you want or can take..usually the more the better)
    • OLE (olive leaf extract) OR monolaurin OR oregano oil gel caps starting with one of them and steadily working up dosage every 3 - 4 days to a high max (say 5-6 pills or 3 - 4 scoops of ML pellets) and then cutting back (NEVER stop antivirals completely) once that has been sustained for a matter of months.
    Together with a strong effort to tamp down resultant inflammation using everything you can...always take inflammation seriously as it isnt an easy effort.
    Options:
    • CBD high strength 20 mg or more per dropper (ask manufacturer) or pill go big at first 2 doses a day to start for a few weeks and then cut back
    • Turmeric generally 1 pill -2 is enough more has diminishing returns. look for a brand with co factors absorption help or even liquid.
    • ICE the forgotten wonder de-inflamer. this includes a cold water head shower immersion or a ice gel pack over ear or head. You wont feel like doing that during an episode but once it calms down you want to get cooled down quickly as you can. Cheap, easy and no side effects and applied closer to an important (ear) source than an oral pill.
    • Echnicaea tincture or pills- antiviral AND anti inflammatory
    I dislike NSAID's but for a very short time (2 days) during a flare up advil or aspirin for a few days is much better than a steroid. I dont recommend steroids as they cause your immune system to crash.. something you really dont want if you have meniere's.
    In summation, you can do some or all but dont do just one of these anti-inflammatories or antivirals. Diversity and starting a multi prong approach increases success. From my world, when I went from a pharma antiviral (which did help on its own) to a more broad based approach above I cut the attacks from 1 - 3 a month to nothing and have been attack free ever since.

    Hope this helps--- feel free to reach out to me directly anytime or anyone that is wanting support or guidance with this approach.

    Jon
     
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  8. teesdale

    teesdale Member

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    Great summary, Jon. Really appreciate it.

    You mention number of pills of monolaurin but not specific dosage amounts. Are they pretty standard? I started on monolaurin two weeks ago and have been taking 2 pills per day. 2 pills = 1 serving =990mg. Are you saying to work up to 6 pills per day (i.e. 3 servings)?
     
  9. Gardengal

    Gardengal Member

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    Excellent plan!!!!!!!!!!
     
  10. JonBubo

    JonBubo Member

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    Teesdale. You are right on it with the # of monolaurin pills and the sort of average strength of many of the brands. The '6 pills' is really a thumb in the air amount for general reference. I have done far more with olive leaf and monolaurin once I knew I could handle it.
    When I started out on monolaurin (I don't take it very often anymore) I used the pills. I did find an extra strength pill that limited pill count by 1 or 2 from that total or any regimen. Natural cures is one that sells a fairly good quality pill that is higher strength (larger pill though). The form many of us use with monolaurin is pellets. For pellets (again general rule) 1/2 a scoop at first and work up to 3 - 4 scoops for a max dosage. For children with EBV or such start with just a few pellets.

    The reason why we start low with these types of cell bursting antivirals is to avoid a situation where a person with a high viral or pathogenic load encounters too much die off. That can put a taxation on the liver/kidneys that can be unhealthy or even dangerous. I have heard of some so called Naturopaths sell ozone therapy 4 x a week and almost kill a person from die off. No credible Naturopath would ever do that. That is their way of trying to make a lot of money fast off a naive patient. Die off, again, is nothing to be feared but respected at these amounts. Understand caution is smart always at first until you know how your body reacts. And then dont do a 'me' and think that maybe olive leaf is bunk and go straight to 5 pills from 2 because 'I dont think it works or is antiviral'. Wowey. BIG mistake many years ago. Was so sick with MD symptoms mixed in with die off.

    While we are at it --- Good to talk about detoxing die off symptoms as well... ...DRINK PLENTY OF CLEAN WATER EVERY DAY! Also things like CBD and chlorella can bind to some of the toxins coming out and reduce die off a tad if thats an issue. Once a person finds they have die off with the 'all at once dosage' they can split the dosage to part in the evening before bed so they are sleeping off that icky feeling that will eventually go away once the loads of pathogens are drawn down. The die off period can last a long time for some (many months) or a matter of weeks for others or even none for some. that doesnt mean it is nt doing any good just that that particular item is not inducing that effect. Its a clue though to pay attention to. Different antivirals are more focused on different pathogens. OLE and oregano are particularly good for HSV , candida and even lyme while monolaurin is well known for EBV. This effect depends on individual pathogenic load, individual immune system, which pathogens they have and which anti pathogens they are taking to name a few. Hope this helps!
     
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