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New to Antivirals

Discussion in 'Your Living Room' started by MelissaD, Dec 23, 2019.

  1. MelissaD

    MelissaD New Member

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    Hi everyone,
    I was diagnosed with Menieres 12 years ago, at age 27. At first it was very typical- ear fullness, spinning vertigo attacks, hearing loss etc. In between vertigo attacks I was functional other than the constant worry of the next attack and the diminished hearing. Recently I have been stuck in bed for 6 weeks with vertigo attacks, and in between attacks I have constant disequilibrium and vertigo that are stopping me from functioning. Can't work, can't cook or clean, can't look as after my kids...in addition, for the past couple of years I have had severe hyperacusis when I hear certain sounds, like cutlery hitting a plate or high pitched sounds like that my head spins for a second. It varies in intensity and seemed to get better after taking some supplements like vitamin a, e, and NAC but now it is back with a vengeance. Kn addition, for the past 6-8 months or so I have had this weird vertigo sensation whenever I would touch my ear, and then gradually it grew so that if I touched anywhere near my ear or my eye or that side of my face my head would spin for a second. This coincided with the same vertigo sensation if I eat anything crunchy or raise my voice even a little. All of this has made life pretty miserable, so I've been looking for anything I can try to help and came across this forum. My family dr and my ENT refused to prescribe antivirals so I went to an after hours clinic to get it. I am taking lysine 3000 mg/day and i started Valtrex 3000 mg/day 2.5 weeks ago. At 2 weeks I started to feel better. I had 2.5 days where I felt a lot better and all my strange symptoms were improving. Then all of a sudden I'm right back to where I was a month ago. So I have 2 questions: 1 - has anyone else had any of these weird, atypical symptoms, and if so what has helped? And 2- if my problem is a virus, is this normal to have a setback like this?
    Thanks for all your previous posts. Despite feeling hopeless, this forum has given me a glimmer
     
  2. John of Ohio

    John of Ohio Member

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    Continue with the lysine and antiherpetic drug. With both of these, symptoms quite often become worse during initial treatment periods; just the opposite of what's wished or expected.

    But in the vast majority of cases, when this happens, when symptoms become more intense after taking either lysine or antiherpetic drugs, it means those agents are having an effect; are beginning to suppress viral activity.

    When confronted with either set of agents, herpes viruses often become more active; trying to overcome the chemical suppressing of viral activity either of the two antiviral agents promote. Persist; regardless. Very likely you will then begin to experience greater periods of relief.

    In the case of lysine, be sure to take it at least 20 minutes before eating, or at least 2 hours after. If consumed with food, the lysine gets mixed in the blood with all the other amino acids in the meal. The body then uses them for normal protein synthesis. The lysine, in a pure form, is not available to disrupt the viral replication process.

    Lastly, it can take weeks, even a few months before lysine attains full suppression of herpes virus activity. It appears that prescription antiherpetic drugs tend to work faster. But in either case, don't give up. For some, it has taken up to four months of lysine dosing to attain herpes control. (Spread the lysine out over the day, in divided doses; say 1000mg at a time, to provide more constant and persisting concentrations.)

    Keep us posted on your progress.
     
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  3. MelissaD

    MelissaD New Member

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    Dec 23, 2019
    Thanks for the info. From what I've read it often gets worse before it gets better, but is it normal to have a few days of improvement only to be set back?
     
  4. Kevinb003

    Kevinb003 Member

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    This has happened to me. As John says, stick with it and try not to get discouraged! Best of luck. --Kevin
     
  5. MelissaD

    MelissaD New Member

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    Dec 23, 2019

    Can I ask how long the worse was before it started to get better?
     
  6. John of Ohio

    John of Ohio Member

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    That seems to vary; greatly. From a few days to a few weeks.

    But again, when it happens (when symptoms get worse at the start of lysine or antiherpetic therapy), it almost always indicates that the agent will eventually suppress the virus; that it's actively and successfully at work.

    --John of Ohio
     
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  7. Gardengal

    Gardengal Member

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    JOH,
    What do you make of relapses while on an AV?
    Do you think that there is any immunity to AVs?
    Do you think that sometimes the virus can flare bc the virus is never truly killed but only suppressed?

    Just curious, if/when you have time to answer....
     
  8. John of Ohio

    John of Ohio Member

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    Yes, "relapses" occur while on antiviral drugs. How come? Probably because the immune system gets turned down, allowing the viruses to become once again virulent even when being suppressed with the drug.

    No, the viruses do not become immune to antiherpetic drugs (reasons for this too detailed to describe here).

    The viruses are never killed; they can't be. They are not alive; merely a packet of DNA or RNA that takes over the chemical control of the infected cell and instructs it to make more viral DNA or RNA. So, legacy or residual viruses can remain after treatment in a dormant (non-replicating) state. Then, some factor prompts their reproductive re-activation.

    Re-infection can also occur from new viruses invading the body.

    Consequently, suppression of herpes virus activity is not a one-time thing. Must be persistent --- and probably multi-factoral (not just antiherpetic drugs). The immune system must be supported. That's where the elevated levels of B vitamins can play a part. I've had success with those, along with 5000 to 8000 IU of vitamin D-3 (which supports the immune system). A strong multivitamin and supplement complex is worth a try. Vitacost has those for both men and women; highly recommended.

    In honesty, I no longer take my own Meniere's treatment regimen; have been completely free of symptoms, now, going on 10 years. The Vitacost multivitamin has been very useful.
     
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  9. MelissaD

    MelissaD New Member

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    Dec 23, 2019
    I am taking b vitamins, as well as D, extra strength echinacea, and just started oregano oil. Even though I am miserable, I am willing to wait to see if antivirals work, but I'm wondering about the other symptoms I mentioned that are not typical menieres symptoms. Has anyone had anything like that? Where I had such typical menieres for so long, and now with such constant dizziness seemingly coming out of nowhere, Im concerned that maybe I have more than menieres going on and, as you all understand, want/need to get better as soon as humanly possible.
     
  10. MelissaD

    MelissaD New Member

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    Also, JOH you mentioned when symptoms get worse at the start of treatment, either lysine or rx, that it is often a sign it's the right treatment, but is 2-3 weeks in considered the start? And does it matter that I took lysine for almost 2 weeks before I started the rx?
     
  11. Gardengal

    Gardengal Member

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    I am no JOH () but yes, I would count that time frame as the very beginning. Stick with it. It could take months. I think 4 months was mentioned.

    JOH, thanks for weighing in!!!
     
  12. John of Ohio

    John of Ohio Member

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    Yes, the first 2 to 3 weeks of treatment is the starting period. Symptoms could increase then, or even later.

    And no, the taking of lysine before taking antiherpetic drugs will not have any impact or control on the efficacy of the drug. Essentially, unrelated, other than the fact the you would then have two, separate therapeutic agents working against the virus.

    --John of Ohio
     
  13. Irishstu

    Irishstu Member

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    I am on the JOH regime (thanks JOH ) and Vitamin B supplements and yes it took about 4 months before i saw consistent results. Every now and then ear fullness with pop up but i up the lysine and it tends to get better after a week or so. Stick with the treatment. Everyone is looking for a quick fix but this battle is a marathon and persistence will yield results. Happy holidays to everone.
     
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  14. JonBubo

    JonBubo Member

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    Your symptoms of the palpation on the side of the face /ear being sensitive are within the realm of normal md symtpom possibilities. I had that as well. There are nerves that connect directly to the inner ear in that area and from the teeth to the inner ear as well (hence teeth grinding and tmj causing issues). I also felt a numbness below the ear on direct contact. However, as I forged through the months of treatment and the attacks and symptoms lessened...that went away (albeit intermittently at first). It came back a few times temporarily when I had a bad week due to ingestion of MSG or gluten. I think your taking of oregano oil along with the others is a very good idea and an additional layer of attack that can improve odds of success. I would take one particular issue with the idea of suppression only vs. bursting a cell wall with a pathogen (not necessarily virus but perhaps many types) Research at least in vitro, and mirrored by results in patients, has demonstrated cell bursting to be possible (with at least oregano oil, monolaurin, Olive leaf and few others). The beauty is no matter what pathogen you are killing cells with it all helps but with the natural antivirals you get a double threat...suppression and the ability to attack pathogens viral and non viral, something lysine and pharmas dont offer. You can reduce symptoms by a little to a lot by just reducing other non viral pathogens. Its only 6 months of your life for the heavy lifting on all this...once you get past the heavy pill count and any herxheimer or die off or any reactivations..it gets easier and easier. Keep your head down, commit and here's to a better new year for you.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2019
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  15. Rich

    Rich Member

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    I'm curious if anyone has ever taken 100% essence of oregano oil with a carvacrol of 80 to 85% and have die off in a matter of days? Started taking it couple of weeks ago and was up to 3 or 4 drops in the morning and at night and started having dizzy spells, headaches and just general flu type feeling. I know there is a difference between oil of oregano and oregano oil. Essence of oregano is a "hot" oil. Would it start having that effect that soon? I don't mean to be robbing the thread but I thought this may pertain to some of Melissa's questions
     
  16. MelissaD

    MelissaD New Member

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    Dec 23, 2019
    Rich, I am taking oregano oil pills that are 80% carvracrol. I have been taking them for 5 days. So far no die off symptoms. Trying to figure out if anything I'm eating is making me worse,but so far can't pinpoint anything. Curious how many in this forum have gone off gluten and seen big improvement in symptoms. And should I be giving the antiviral approach it's due time to see if it works before I try any major diet changes?
     
  17. Alice80

    Alice80 New Member

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    Hi John, I’m trying your regimen and I was exploring the vitamin D option. Do you suggest taking vitamin D plus the multivitamin? Was the antiviral drugs that helped you the most?
     
  18. John of Ohio

    John of Ohio Member

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    I never took a prescription antiviral drug. When I started experimenting on myself to combat my Meniere's, starting in 1995, no one ever thought of using antiherpetic drugs for the disease.

    As I've described, after a number of years of experimentation, I settled on the things listed in my regimen write up. The question is always asked, then, which of all of those actually gave the good results. Answer: Not a one of them, by itself. I do feel that the lysine, by itself, was the strongest. But for the full relief I've enjoyed for over a dozen years, I had to take, consistently, all of the listed things.

    Today, I no longer take the lysine or the lemon bioflavonoid. A few years ago, I perceived that when I started to add in a strong multivitamin, one with elevated levels of all of the B vitamins, things were good.

    At the same time, I also started to take 5000IU of vitamin D-3 each day, along with vitamin D co-factors magnesium and vitamin K-2. Haven't had a cold or flu since. With the strong multivitamins, and the vitamin D supported by the magnesium and the vitamin K-2, my immune system is at full strength. The herpes viruses that formerly resided in my inner ear tissues can no longer replicate; are inactive, if not thoroughly destroyed.

    So, yes, very much, take at least 5000IU of vitamin D-3 each day, along with everything else. Check, then, too. to see how many colds or flues you get after that.

    --John of Ohio
     
  19. Alice80

    Alice80 New Member

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    Thank you so much, that helps a lot! I know you recommend Vitacost supplements, is there a multivitamin in particular that works better for you? I also take Lipoflavonoids that have all the B vitamins.
     
  20. John of Ohio

    John of Ohio Member

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