John of Ohio

Discussion in 'Your Living Room' started by Sholly, Jun 6, 2011.

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  1. Sholly

    Sholly New Member

    got all my stuff to start JOH! Very excited and hopeful. How awsome is that John of Ohio?? The world needs more people like him who think out of the box and share the knowledge.
  2. Justincase

    Justincase Yes this is me, I survived and will survive MM to!

    Hear hear!
  3. bulldogs

    bulldogs New Member

    JOH is doing some wonderful things and helping many. Unfortunately it did not help me. I tend to be more inside the box thinker.

    just don't know what the long term effects are of some of those pills on my body over 20-30 years.

    if they work for you and give you relief all the power to you. All we want is relief from vertigo any way we can get it.

    wishing you the best,

    keep us posted.
  4. phildsc

    phildsc New Member

    Good Sholly, hope it works for you as well as it did for me.
  5. John of Ohio

    John of Ohio New Member

    As it happens, I've done a moderare revision and update on my regimen document, in both .doc and PDF formats. I've eliminated that beta glucans, as there has been no conclusive evidence that it made any difference, unlike the other things in the regimen, which are retained.

    The biggest change, over the older versions, is the 3000 mgs of daily lysine (continuing the version for Jan 2010).

    There is now much more information on other successful alternative treatments for MM, including NUCCA chiropractic and large-dose vitamin C, referenced back to the abundant information on this website. I also outline prescription antiherpetics (acyclovir, etc), with reference to that information here.

    Sadly, I have not yet been able to get the PDF posted where it could be downloaded. The people posting my Jan 2010 regimen version have the new PDF and are supposed to be getting it sometime. I checked, and it was not up today at

    But really sad is the continuing offer of my 2005 version, which is way out of date and has very inadequate, even misleading formation here:

    I've been sending updates many times, but nothing ever changes there. This is really bad because that old 2005 regimen says one should take 1500 mgs of lysine. Well, I know conclusively now that that's not enough. Who knows how many MM sufferers have found that old site in a "John of Ohio" Google search and then downloaded it and got no results.

    If anyone has any suggests on how to get around these problems. let me know. Is there any way of posted my new PDF for convenient download on this site?

    And yes, a lot of people will want an emailed copy of the new PDF. Let me know how this can be arranged.

    Most importantly, I've discovered that people on the new regimen, at 3000 mgs of daily lysine (in the strict dosage regimen described in the document), who have persisted for at least 6 months, have at least a 90% success rate. That's another thing I revised, the information on how long it can take for results, and why it's important to persist with the regimen for longer periods than recommended in the past.

    How can I get this information out to the widest MM audience, with the greatest convenience?

    (And yes, there are some readers unfamiliar with me, who are just absolutely certain I'm somehow trying for fame and big buck. Sorry. Not so, as very few know who I am, especially the vendors of the recommended products. I get nothing but satisfaction from any of this.)

    --John of Ohio
  6. jaypr

    jaypr New Member

    You are right Sholly JOH certainly is something else. He is so knowledgeable and consistently helpful, just like alot of other people here.

    I would take notice of the Lysine amount of 3000mg per day i.e. 3 separate 1000mg each day on an empty stomach. I take mine first thing am, last thing pm and mid afternoon 2 hours after lunch. It has worked very well for me, no vertigo attacks in two years.

    Finding this forum and people on it was a lucky day for me.

  7. Rhemajoy

    Rhemajoy New Member

    Oh. Well crap, I googled your name and found the website and assumed it was maintained by you. Since I saw you posting I was going to let you know that all the links to alternative sights are broken or no longer valid.

    I sent the link to a friend as opposed to trying to send them the information you pm'd me with when I first joined the board. Is that the newest regiment or no?

    I am financially restricted ... VERY financially restricted and have not yet been able to try it. I did wonder, however .. if you couldn't get everything, and could purchase one or two .. a very small bit at a time ... which should one go for first?
  8. John of Ohio

    John of Ohio New Member

    There is no doubt that the regimen, in its entirety gives the highest chance for successful symptomatic relief. But if you are restricted, try at least the lysine, first, as Frank described. I'd go next with the lemon bioflavonoid, followed by the vinpocetine.

    Those are the Big Three. The rest can be taken later if available. But if you could take only one thing, the lysine would be the thing.

    Keep us posted on your progress.

    --John of Ohio
  9. Rhemajoy

    Rhemajoy New Member

    Ok, thanks ... I have wanted to try this, it's just difficult right now. :/
  10. Angelea

    Angelea New Member


    Why don't you set up your own website? I don't think it is difficult. Or a blog? Even easier!

    Yours is the only alternative therapy I have seen that I personally believe may have any merit at all. It, unfortunately, didn't work for me but I believe I developed some kind of irreversible damage in the first weeks of on-set. I also have issues with the supplement industry and strongly encourage people to get their supplements from a USP-verified manufacturer whenever possible to ensure their supps contain what they claim to contain (and nothing else). What this means:

    Companies that participate (self-monitor):

    I say this because someone following the regimen is not likely to get results from a product if it doesn't contain the amount of active ingredient it is supposed to and, worse, some products have been found to contain dangerously-high amounts of active ingredient or contaminants such as mercury or lead. Companies participating in the USP verification program promise to test their products for purity and levels of active ingredient to ensure they contain exactly what the label says they do.

    That being said, I think you have put a lot of time into this and at least have reasonable science behind your conclusions. No doubt worth a try for anyone suffering from this beast.
  11. Angelea

    Angelea New Member

    BTW, with all the talk about vasopressin and diureses on the MD Research Fund threads, I did a little reading about high doses of vitamin C and found it acts as a diuretic. This could explain why it works for some people if the theory about such is correct. Thought I'd throw that out there...
  12. John of Ohio

    John of Ohio New Member

    Vitamin C in the sustained release form in my regimen is not likely to have any diuretic effects; only in large, single doses. And many who have found symptomatic relief with the high-dose vitamin C therapy failed to get that when they took diuretics, so the putative diuretic effect of the vitamin C was not the relief mechanism.

    I haven't the time nor resources nor interest in setting up some "John of Ohio Meniere's Website." All of that has been done on this board. I'm merely inquiring about updating the two sites that presently offer for download my new regimen write-up. What would involved just a few keyboard clicks.

    And for those worried about the safety or quality of the products I list in the regimen write-up, who like yourself would be reluctant to use any that aren't included in the wibsite you provided, the regimen simply is not an alternative. None of the firms selling lemon bioflavonoids or vinopocetine are listed. No game, then, if that's the criterion.

    I and many dozens of others have been popping a handful of "unapproved" supplements for over a decade now and continue to remain symptom free. Vitamin Shoppe, VitaCost, and Nutrition Express adhere to very high standards of product quality. If you worry about the quality or safety of products from these companies, it would be equally unwise to buy fruits or vegetables from a farmer's stand or farmer's market, inasmuch as the FDA never visited the farm and you just can't know what chemicals the "producer" used. All the fruits and vegetables at farmer's markets are entirely untested for safety.

    You pointed out that "someone following the regimen is not likely to get results from a product if it doesn't contain the amount of active ingredient it is supposed to and, worse, some products have been found to contain dangerously-high amounts of active ingredient or contaminants such as mercury or lead." Well, inasmuch as the regimen actually has given me (and many others) complete freedom from symptoms, using the recommended and listed products in the regimen write-up, the "amount of active ingredient" is not a concern. The amounts have been effective.

    The presence of lead and other contaminants of lead or mercury is not something I will worry about. Neither of these ions are found in lemon exocarp (rind), nor in Vinca minor, the plant from which vinpocetine is extracted. Not in lysine (an amino acid), nor ascorbic acid (vitamin C) or in soybeans from which the virtamin E tocopherols are extracts. The only concern would be lead from ginkgo, but this is checked for by both VitaCost and Vitamin Shoppe.

    Those who presume that VitaCost and Vitamin Shoppe and Nutrition Express are foisting low-quality, contaminated products onto the unwary public probably shouldn't be thinking of any Meniere's treatment that isn't approved or sanctioned by the always-safe FDA or standard medicine. Too many things to worry about. Stay with what's known to be safe (if ineffective).

    -John of Ohio
  13. Angelea

    Angelea New Member

    Oh, boy. Here I thought I was giving you kudos, granted with a dose of caution. I think you misunderstood some of my points and on a couple of others I think you are quite naive about the supplement industry.

    1. A clarification on Vitamin C and diuresis: different diuretics work differently and in different parts of the kidney. Some excrete more sodium than others, while, as we know some are potassium-sparing and others can quickly lead to a potassium deficiency if not replaced. Just because someone failed on a prescription diuretic or two doesn't mean that they might not respond to the diuretic effect of Vitamin C (high dose oral or I.V.).

    2. There have been many reports by independent groups (i.e. Consumer Reports) that have found that a certain percentage of VMS do not contain the dose stated on the bottle. Like I said previously, usually when there is a discrepancy, the product has been found to contain little to no active ingredient. So how can someone get the desired effect if the product doesn't contain a therapeutic dose to begin with? Who is policing this? What is the motivation for the manufacturer to police themselves? First and foremost they are in business to make a profit, no? They did not invest thousands, if not millions, of dollar because they "just want to help people." It costs money to consistently test products, a lot of money.

    3. The raw ingredients for VMS and herbal supplements come almost exclusively from China. They can't even keep known poisons out of baby bottles and infant toys. Come on... No one is saying that lead, mercury, melamine, and the like are part of the active ingredient itself. These things are contaminants in the fillers used to make the pills and capsules. One has to test for them to determine if they are there. Who is doing that? Again, costs money.

    I, like you, do believe the active ingredients in VMS and herbal supplements certainly could (and do in many cases) have a therapeutic effect just like, or even better, than some drugs. My point is there are ways to ensure that you are getting what you think you are getting, nothing more and nothing less.

    I just heard a news story the other day that stated nearly 16,000 deaths were attributed to ma huang (ephedra) before the FDA was able to ban it. This is an extreme example, perhaps, but up to that point plenty of people were running around taking the stuff and companies were making a ton of money marketing it as a safe weight loss and/or energy supplement with no apparent conscience even though many, many reports of serious side effects and death were reported to them. They did not stop selling the stuff until they were forced to by law. I am not saying any of the products on your regimen come close to falling into the same category as ephedra. I just use this to make my point that these are not simply altruistic operations who have the safety of the consumer at heart. Most people do not take VMS or herbal supplements consistently enough to develop any potential long-term side effects. If one does chose to stick with a regimen for the long-haul, then do your due diligence and make sure you are getting what you think you are getting.

    A good friend of mine from college is a chemist and worked for a well-respected supplement manufacturer in the Bay Area. After working for this company for more than 5 years, he finally had to quit because of the poor quality control standards he observed over and over. It was all about the all-mighty dollar and there were absolutely no independent entities involved in making sure they were doing what they said they did. They were not a USP-verified company. They did self-test their products, but products still went to market if they were found to contain less active ingredient than it was purported to because it was too expensive to throw it out and start over.

    Let's put the egos aside, myself included. Like you, I have nothing to gain and just want to be of service to my fellow MM sufferers.
  14. Rhemajoy

    Rhemajoy New Member

    Um, Hi .... waves a hand .... I hear what you're saying John. I might be misinterpreting your response, but it seemed to be written somewhat defensively when I don't think Angelea meant to put you on the defensive. She was actually complimenting you, acknowledging your work and was trying to give some input on how to better spread the word about your work.

    I don't know all the ins and outs, but I do know that there are differences in how manufacturers manufacture their products. Some use certain inactive ingredients that others don't and some manufacture the pill in more cost effective ways that essentially interfere with how it distributes into your body. The active ingredient should be distributed into your bloodstream, but instead a good bit of it actually flushes out of your body. This is the type of thing I interpreted Angelea as being concerned with. Not the safety of the active ingredient itself, but of what inactive ingredients might be included in various brands and how that might interfere with a supplement/vitamin's effectiveness.

    I would say, however, that I tend to trust places that work solely with herbal medications and vitamins more so than your typical drugstore and never would I purchase them from cheap places like the dollar store etc.

    So, again, I believe Angelea was acknowledging and complimenting you for the work that you have done and are continuing to do.
  15. Jordan

    Jordan New Member

    Angelea makes very good points. Also, not everyone here has access to reputable shops like the Vitamin Shoppe, especially if they live outside the United States. In Jordan (where I live), we do not have many choices when it comes to vitamins and supplements. Only a few brands are sold, and they are not always available. L-Lysine, for example, has not been available in the country since May. When it was available, there was only one brand to choose from. Although it was imported from Canada, I have no idea if it was a "good" brand. Yes, it helped my husband with his Meniere's, but one has to take safety into consideration when choosing a long-term treatment plan. Unfortunately, there are no easy answers because the alternative (suffering with Meniere's) is not a viable option. So Angelea's advice on how to choose reputable brands that are more likely to be safe is much appreciated.
  16. Sholly

    Sholly New Member

    Please tell me what "USP-verified" means exactly. I am unfamiliar with the term.
  17. Angelea

    Angelea New Member

    Go back up to one of previous posts in this thread. I included links to the site. It stands for the U.S. Phamacoepia. From their website:

    "The United States Pharmacopeia (USP) is a non–governmental, official public standards–setting authority for prescription and over–the–counter medicines and other healthcare products manufactured or sold in the United States. USP also sets widely recognized standards for food ingredients and dietary supplements. USP sets standards for the quality, purity, strength, and consistency of these products–critical to the public health. USP's standards are recognized and used in more than 130 countries around the globe. These standards have helped to ensure public health throughout the world for close to 200 years."
  18. Sholly

    Sholly New Member

    Thanks, Angela. So should a supplement say on the bottle that it is USP-verified?
  19. Trinity

    Trinity Bilateral Menieres 20 years, 24-7 symptoms,

    Hi John. I took 2000 mgs of l-lysine for about 3 years. I stopped taking it about 8 months ago. I have not had any vertigo or drop attacks in 4 years and my inner ear balance is burned out. I still take lemom bioflavonoids, vinpecotine, vitamin c, vitamin D and fish oil. I have very bad roaring tinnitus, severe bilateral hearing loss, sound sensitivity and pressure in my ears and head. It is no different since I am off the l-lysine. I also took acyclovir for 30 days at the maximun dosage,with no improvement. Do you think the l-lysine is still necessary. Does it help the other symptoms if you don't have any vertigo. Thanks as always for your help. Carole
  20. Air Force One

    Air Force One New Member

    Here you say to take 3000 mgs of Lysine a day (from Vitamin Shoppe, Nutrition Express, et al to make sure the quality is correct)

    Then here you basically say that even if the bottle from Vitamin Shoppe or Nutrition Express does not contain the listed amount of Lysine, or some random amount, it doesn't matter because it works, anyway.

    Not trying to criticize, just trying to seems like you are saying that even if Vitamin Shoppe or Nutrition Express fills their capsules with chalk, that it does not matter because the chalk(or whatever is in there), works to alleviate MM symptoms so just take it regardless of what exactly it is because it simply works, whatever it is, or how much of the labeled product it contains(or doesn't contain)

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